# Obama complains about Netanyahu; Sarkozy calls N. a 'liar'. Worse than the Green Line speech? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345 "2011-11-09T01:35:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/81 "2011-11-13T06:54:30Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Not in the least. The problem I have is that _any_ real or imagined US government negativity _ever_towards Israel appears to be perceived by your good self as a “problem”. (Also that you appear to ally yourself with only the conservative side of Israeli politics and portray that as Israel as a whole.) Either you are not reading what I am typing or you are doing this on purpose. Obama has a ‘Jewish voter’ problem. That has been established. > [@](#): > > In a world where one head of government calls another an unfuckable lard-arse, I think Obama’s alleged “complaint” (dictionary definitions of words are very unbecoming as a debating tactic) is a spit in the ocean, and focusing on it is a distraction from the fact that Nethanyahu is a complete dick and actually needs his most powerful ally to publicly bitch-slap him into not doing things that are unbelievably counterproductive like, say, [expanding the settlement program](http://www.voanews.com/english/news/middle-east/Israeli-Settlement-Expansion-Raises-West-Bank-Tensions-133658633.html), which push the practicalities of a two-state solution even further over an already distant horizon. Again, you’re making this about Netanyahu’s policies, not about Obama’s relationship with American Jews. I suppose if you want to make the argument that Dems will take up this mantra-- “Bibi is a Butthead!”, that’s your call. There have been various threads on the Dope about Obama and Jewish voters as of late. Are you angry about them as well? Or just mine, because you perceive me to be some kind of conservative party hack? I promise, as soon as that slipup happened, the party operatives went, “OH SHIT!” :smack::smack: ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/82 "2011-11-13T07:55:42Z")
I used to work in the same office building as the bona fide Zionist [Jewish National Fund For Israel](http://www.jnf.org/about-jnf/). I’d occasionally run in to their [President](http://www.jnf.org/about-jnf/our-leadership/board-members/stanley-m-chesley.html) in the bathroom. Somehow, I doubt that this incident will have major repercussions for the vote of one of the top Democratic fundraisers of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/83 "2011-11-13T08:21:31Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Either you are not reading what I am typing or you are doing this on purpose. Obama has a ‘Jewish voter’ problem. That has been established. I don’t think he does. Obama has a voter problem in general. . .his approval rating is down. But Jews are still more likely to approve of Obama than the general population, and his approval rating among Jews isn’t declining any faster than his approval rating in the general population. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/84 "2011-11-13T09:55:59Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Actually, this has become a “meh” thread. Because the original issue is “meh.” Hell, its not even an issue if journalists agree not to report it. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/85 "2011-11-13T12:54:50Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > … I promise, as soon as that slipup happened, the party operatives went, “OH SHIT!” :smack::smack: It is really bordering on the surreal that you keep making this out to be a gaffe or a slip-up. And it painfully clear this is more about your paranoid Israeli politics than the US president. The US president made an anodyne response that implied indirectly what is really well-known, Bibi is a bastard to deal with (plenty of foreign observers have said so already, it’s not really shocking). It was the **French** President who called him a liar and was the initiator. In a private conversation one does not expect the US President should in any way feel obliged to rush to the defence of someone from another country. Particularly as it really doesn’t gain the US anything at all. The “gaffe” was on the part of the French hosts, not the US president, anyone with the slightest rationality can see that. Of course I’ve learned over the years that a certain segment of the US population seems unable to distinguish rationally between Israel and USA. Queer thing, but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/86 "2011-11-13T15:22:20Z")
It would be interesting to debate why is Netanyahu considered to be a bastard and a liar. I would argue that it stems from his characteristics as a political leader and his inability to compromise and play along the generally accepted lines of normal course for resolution of P-I issue. Only to later blame everyone else for failed progress. So, yeah, I can understand why would hard-core Zionist be upset with Sarkozy and Obama confirming each other perception of the guy. I dont think they call him bastard because he does not call a round of beer once in a while or a liar because he says he’ll be in some irish pub but ends up in a strip joint. Therefore, it is an issue that needs to get people to talk about it as it further exposes how ludicrous the whole process is and how unattanaible it is under current Israeli government. To reduce this “gaffe” to an issue of Obama’s re-election chances and how it plays out in US politics is a typical misdirection that swamps what should, in my opinion, be s subject of discussion - is Netanyahu honest broker for peace or does he have other plans. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/87 "2011-11-13T15:36:59Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Hell, its not even an issue if journalists agree not to report it. I was a journalist once, and IME they never “agree” with journalists at other outfits not to report something. If they all see something they don’t report, it’s because they all **know** it ain’t news. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/88 "2011-11-13T15:44:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I was a journalist once, and IME they never “agree” with journalists at other outfits not to report something. If they all see something they don’t report, it’s because they all **know** it ain’t news. Or, perhaps, by now they know that the story they would write about would never be published? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/89 "2011-11-13T15:49:04Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Or, perhaps, by now they know that the story they would write about would never be published? Clearly the Jewish controlled media is biased against Jews and will not run the story. Or am I mixing up talking points? It’s harder for liberals because we don’t have the direct line to Limbaugh and God (or are they the same person these days, I can’t keep up). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/90 "2011-11-13T17:50:54Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Or, perhaps, by now they know that the story they would write about would never be published? The fact that all journalists answer to editors who nowadays answer to MBAs in suits does have **some** effect on editorial content; but an industry-wide spiking of a story would require more coordination than appears possible at present. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/91 "2011-11-14T16:04:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s not just religion. In general - particularly if you leave out the Orthodox - most American Jews are pretty liberal. The Republican strategy is apparently based on the idea that a lot of Jews are single-issue voters and the issue is Israel, but I’ve never seen any evidence that’s is the case. Yeah, but I think a lot of the “pretty liberal” part comes from their religion (or at least the culture that the religion promotes). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/92 "2011-11-14T16:10:10Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > I think the Dems are still trying to deal with the Republicans’ charge that Obama is a secret Muslim that was born in Kenya (if by dealing with it you mean trying hard not to laugh). > > ETA: And as an American I sincerely hope that Obama is not pro-Israel or anti-Israel, just working for the best solution for everyone involved. Scroo that, I hope he’s pro-America. There are some resolutions that work out better for America than others. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345/93 "2011-11-14T16:46:38Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > If the Jews are consistently so much for the Democrats, why don’t the Republicans ditch them and try to fish votes form the people that are opposed to Israel? Well, there was the first President Bush who was quite hostile to Israel, had a Palestinian-American Chief of Staff who was also quite hostile to Israel, and who had a Secratary of State who proclaimed “fuck the Jews. They didn’t vote for us.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-complains-about-netanyahu-sarkozy-calls-n-a-liar-worse-than-the-green-line-speech/602345.md?page=4)