# Obama: DHS will issue work visas to young undocumented immigrants **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 16, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310 "2012-06-16T02:07:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/121 "2012-06-16T21:10:31Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I read a good article today. What happens when the next Republican president decides that there are “limited resources” and decides not to prosecute insider trading, enforce EPA regulations, or hate crime laws? Will the posters in this thread be so deferential to executive policies? Evidently Obama is acting under the discretion granted by our immigration law. How will this next Republican, and evidently monumentally politically suicidal person, justify not undertaking such prosecutions? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/122 "2012-06-16T21:30:08Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Do you have stats on how often it happens? Because I’ve yet to see a student without papers who was in that situation. It’s only 200 kids or so that I’ve known, but still. Are you talking about the number of kids in orphanages and foster care? [Over 408,000 as of 2010.](http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/foster.pdf#Page=1&view=Fit) Orphans living in group homes hoping to be adopted. It looks like 127,000 in 1999. Couldn’t find great numbers because we don’t have “orphanages” like most other countries any more, as they have been replaced with several versions of group homes. > [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > And yes, I’d 100 per cent take in one of those kids and support their citizenship. (Per immigration law, you have to take them in very young and I only teach high school.) I think you miss my point. If you would take in an illegal immigrant who didn’t have parents, wouldn’t you also take in an American child in the same situation? > [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > It’s almost impossible, though, since the parent would have to give up their rights. It’s their choice. Just like the one they made to come here illegal. > [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Wondering what you think about [these](http://colorlines.com/archives/2011/11/thousands_of_kids_lost_in_foster_homes_after_parents_deportation.html) situations, where kids are put in foster care because their parents were deported. That’s not right. Horrible for the parents and ten times worse for the kids, particularly the young ones. The parents should be allowed to leave the country with them, or place them with a relative. Their choice. But you have to accept that it is their parents’ decision that allowed this to happen in the first place. > [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > What we’re doing is creating a class (or sustaining a class) of second-class citizens. I’d rather tell my students they have options to WORK and they should get good grades so they can graduate instead of sympathize with them when they turn to gangs or drop out of school because there’s no point. Wait, you’re talking about a bunch of other things here that have little to do with illegal immigration specifically. Your talking about the problem of kids growing up in unsupportive homes, regardless of citizenship or immigration status. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/123 "2012-06-16T21:37:32Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > But as someone who has been waiting in a very long line to do things the legal way to get my relatives through the immigration process it pisses me off that anyone is allowed to jump the line. Doesn’t matter to me that these are people who came to the States as kids. As long as USCIS is busy processing their applications they are not getting to my family’s applications. My heart goes out to you. I always bring up the situations of people like you in these types of threads and people just hand wave it away. I think it’s unfair and immoral that people like you who have been waiting in line, with great patience and frustration, have to see others accommodated. They break the law and things work out the way they wanted. You follow the law and you’re just told to wait longer…while time, effort and resources have to be spent making accommodations for the lawbreakers and their families. The pisses me off mightily. It’s so blatantly unfair. I can only imagine how much angrier I would be if I were in your shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/124 "2012-06-16T21:49:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s exactly what the Ninth Circuit did in the Rincon case cited above: noted that Congress had explicitly made violations of a different section of the same Act a crime, and not the section in question. All right. I read Russello. I don’t know how to interpret this: “Moreover, where Congress includes particular language in one section of a statute but omits it in another section of the same Act, it is generally presumed that Congress acts intentionally and purposely in the disparate inclusion or exclusion. The fact that Congress specifically included any reference to specific intent simply suggests the obvious-that Congress intended “arrest” to be an element of the criminal offense but did not choose for “specific intent” to be so.” First, I don’t know which specific law would apply to an illegal immigrant, therefore, I don’t know how someone would infer “intent.” Isn’t the simple knowledge that one is in the country illegally evidence of mens rea? Second, since you mention it, which parts of which law/statute/whatever did congress _state a penalty for_ illegal immigration but ignores an ongoing residency–is it the Section 8 of 1325? I really hope you understand what I mean. I don’t know how to ask it better. And what did Rincon and Dean have to do with it? Indian gambling and discharging a firearm during a robbery…? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/125 "2012-06-16T21:51:30Z")
**Magellan01** , you (and others) are talking about fairness and morality. Think of it this way: if a child’s parents committed a murder together when the kid was 7 or 8, how much should the child have to suffer for it when he’s an adult? Another thought: I am the child of one illegal immigrant (and one US citizen who, though married, did not bother to sponsor my mother for legal residency until she had been in the US nearly 30 years). She was deported once when I was a child, and re-entered illegally. Because she was white, educated, securely employed, and a native English speaker, this was all a minor inconvenience for her, while to a poorly educated native Spanish speaker, it would be disastrous. How is THAT fair? If she had been kept out, I would have had to leave the country, too, or else grow up without a mother. How is THAT fair? And, of course, as a gay man I’m not allowed to sponsor my spouse for immigration at all, which means all that public money spent on MY education, K through PhD, is now benefitting Canada and not the USA at all. From other threads I suspect that’s a net gain in your book. The point is, the system is so byzantine and backlogged and biased that there is no way to use terms like “fair” or “moral” in description of the status quo. **Iggy** ’s point is quite reasonable, but there are a thousand other aspects to the prioritization process in place that he could (and should) object to just as much. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/126 "2012-06-16T22:05:39Z")
> [@Rysdad](#): > > First, I don’t know which specific law would apply to an illegal immigrant, therefore, I don’t know how someone would infer “intent.” Isn’t the simple knowledge that one is in the country illegally evidence of mens rea? But are they then protected under the 5th Amendment–so mens rea doesn’t matter? Or does mens rea only apply to a violation that’s to occur _in the future_? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/127 "2012-06-16T22:15:47Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > **Magellan01** , you (and others) are talking about fairness and morality. Think of it this way: if a child’s parents committed a murder together when the kid was 7 or 8, how much should the child have to suffer for it when he’s an adult? When did living in your own country equate to suffering? Why is waiting to immigrate according to the law suffering? The President of Mexico wants us to hold his citizens to a different standard than their own. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/128 "2012-06-16T23:35:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > When did living in your own country equate to suffering? Why is waiting to immigrate according to the law suffering? The President of Mexico wants us to hold his citizens to a different standard than their own. Well, it’s beside the point, but for vast swathes of humanity, living in their own country IS suffering, due to poverty, violence, ethnic / gender / linguistic / gender minority status, corruption, and instability. I’m not saying that gives them a free pass to sneak into the US, but I think their suffering is objectively real. Obviously, that’s on a case-by-case basis and neither you nor I are qualified to judge. But we weren’t talking about the people who made the decision to immigrate illegally, we were talking about their children. Children who don’t have a choice about the culture they grow up in, or the language they learn to speak. If your immigrant parents keep you from speaking Spanish, what happens to you when you turn 18 and are deported to El Salvador? You can blame your parents for your troubles, but it still sucks to be you. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/129 "2012-06-17T00:02:28Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Well, it’s beside the point, but for vast swathes of humanity, living in their own country IS suffering, due to poverty, violence, ethnic / gender / linguistic / gender minority status, corruption, and instability. I’m not saying that gives them a free pass to sneak into the US, but I think their suffering is objectively real. Obviously, that’s on a case-by-case basis and neither you nor I are qualified to judge. > > But we weren’t talking about the people who made the decision to immigrate illegally, we were talking about their children. Children who don’t have a choice about the culture they grow up in, or the language they learn to speak. If your immigrant parents keep you from speaking Spanish, what happens to you when you turn 18 and are deported to El Salvador? You can blame your parents for your troubles, but it still sucks to be you. How is it not besides the point? If there are people from other countries deserving of US citizenship why are we allowing one country to dominate and overload our system? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/130 "2012-06-17T00:43:41Z")
From [RationalWiki](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Myths_and_facts_about_immigration_to_the_United_States) (non-copyrighted material): > [@](#): > > **Myths and facts about immigration to the United States** > > Most of the complaints made by anti-immigration activists regarding the status of illegal immigrants from Mexico to the United States are based on exaggeration, misconception, myths and outright lies. As with most things, many of the complaints are real for a very small number of illegal immigrants, but by and large, they do not apply to most of the illegal immigration into this country. > > Further, those who oppose illegal immigration tend to focus their rhetoric on emotional issues, such as claims that illegal immigrants are “taking our jobs” and “threatening our security;” but the evidence they provide in favor of these claims is very scanty, and they only seem to have one “solution” to the problem, viz., “kick the wetbacks out,” which if there were no other objections to it would cause major damage to the U.S. economy. > > \*\*The myths > > Illegal immigrants don’t pay taxes\*\* > > - All immigrants pay taxes whether they are illegal or not. They pay them in the form of property tax - directly if they own a home, or indirectly if they rent; sales tax on all the goods they buy, and income tax at Federal, State and local level. > - Since illegal immigrants often have fake documents, including fake Social Security numbers, the money they pay into the system is money that will never be withdrawn. The amount in question is evidenced by the Social Security Administration’s “suspense file” (taxes that cannot be matched to workers’ names and Social Security numbers), which grew $20 billion between 1990 and 1998.[1][2] > > **Legal immigrants come here to get “welfare”** > > - Immigrants come to work and to reunite with family members[citation needed]. > - Immigrant labor-force participation is consistently higher than native-born, and immigrant workers make up a larger share of the U.S. labor force (12.4%) than they do the U.S. population (11.5%). Moreover, the ratio between immigrant use of public benefits and the amount of taxes they pay is consistently favorable to the U.S., unless the “study” was undertaken by an anti-immigrant group.[citation needed] In one estimate, immigrants earn about $240 billion a year, pay about $90 billion a year in taxes, and use about $5 billion in public benefits. In another cut of the data, immigrant tax payments total $20 to $30 billion more than the amount of government services they use.[3] > - Since the welfare reform of 1996, when limits were implemented cutting off benefits to two years consecutively or five years cumulatively, this is a bogus accusation. > - To immigrate into the US, you must have a sponsor (generally the family member, such as the spouse, bringing you into the country) who will testify that he or she has enough money to support you, if you are unable to support yourself, or if you lose your job. This agreement means that within the first 5 years of living in the US, you cannot take welfare. Your family member will be assessed a penalty if you demand it.[citation needed] > > **Immigrants send all their money back to their home countries** > > - In addition to the consumer spending of immigrant households, immigrants and their businesses contribute $162 billion in tax revenue to U.S. federal, state, and local governments. While it is true that immigrants remit billions of dollars a year to their home countries, this is one of the most targeted and effective forms of direct foreign investment.[4] > > **Immigrants take jobs and opportunity away from Americans** > > - The largest wave of immigration to the U.S. since the early 1900s coincided with the lowest national unemployment rate and fastest economic growth. Immigrant entrepreneurs create jobs for U.S. and foreign workers, and foreign-born students allow many U.S. graduate programs to keep their doors open. While there has been no comprehensive study done of immigrant-owned businesses, we have countless examples: in Silicon Valley, companies begun by Chinese and Indian immigrants generated more than $19.5 billion in sales and nearly 73,000 jobs in 2000.[5] > - Illegal immigrants, as well as legal immigrants with little job skills or language skills often take the work seen by most Americans as “beneath them.” Janitorial services, crop pickers, garbage collectors need workers, and they do not find them from high-school-educated, English-speaking citizens. As a demonstration of this fact, in Georgia, a 2011 crackdown on illegal immigrants caused many to be deported and more to flee the state. This caused a shortage of labor on the state’s farms, indicating that illegal immigrants in that state do not compete very much with Americans for jobs. > > **Immigrants are a drain on the U.S. economy** > > - During the 1990s, half of all new workers were foreign-born, filling gaps left by native-born workers in both the high- and low-skill ends of the spectrum. > - Immigrants fill jobs in key sectors, start their own businesses, and contribute to a thriving economy. The net benefit of immigration to the U.S. is nearly $10 billion annually. As Alan Greenspan points out, 70% of immigrants arrive in prime working age.[6] > - Due to welfare reform, legal immigrants are severely restricted from accessing public benefits, and illegal immigrants are even further precluded from anything other than emergency services. Anti-immigrant groups skew these figures by including programs used by U.S. citizen children of immigrants in their definition of immigrant welfare use, among other tactics. transplanted into our workforce and will contribute $500 billion toward our social security system over the next 20 years. > > **Immigrants don’t want to learn English or become Americans** > > - Within ten years of arrival, more than 75% of immigrants speak English well; moreover, demand for English classes at the adult level far exceeds supply. Greater than 33% of immigrants are naturalized citizens; given increased immigration in the 1990s, this figure will rise as more legal permanent residents become eligible for naturalization in the coming years. The number of immigrants naturalizing spiked sharply after two events: enactment of immigration and welfare reform laws in 1996, and the terrorist attacks in 2001.[7] > > **Today’s immigrants are different than those of 100 years ago** > > - In the sense that they are coming to America from different parts of the world that is true. However, the percentage of the U.S. population that is foreign-born now stands at 11.5%; in the early 20th century it was approximately 15%. Similar to accusations about today’s immigrants, those of 100 years ago initially often settled in mono-ethnic neighborhoods, spoke their native languages, and built up newspapers and businesses that catered to their fellow émigrés. They also experienced the same types of discrimination that today’s immigrants face, and integrated within American culture at a similar rate. If we view history objectively, we remember that every new wave of immigrants has been met with suspicion and doubt and yet, ultimately, every past wave of immigrants has been vindicated and saluted.[8] Never forget the “No Irish need apply” signs of yesteryear. > > **Most immigrants cross the border illegally** > > - Around 75% have legal permanent (immigrant) visas; of the 25% that are here illegally, 40% overstayed temporary (nonimmigrant) visas.[9] > - Prior to modern immigration laws, and even prior to the existence of the United States, Europeans came to the continent without any paperwork whatsoever. > > **Weak U.S. border enforcement has led to high levels of illegal immigration** > > - From 1986 to 1998, the Border Patrol’s budget increased sixfold and the number of agents stationed on our southwest border doubled to 8,500. The Border Patrol also toughened its enforcement strategy, heavily fortifying typical urban entry points and pushing migrants into dangerous desert areas, in hopes of deterring crossings. Instead, the illegal immigrant population doubled in that period, to 8 million - despite the legalization of nearly 3 million immigrants after the enactment of the Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986. Insufficient legal avenues for immigrants to enter the U.S., compared with the number of jobs available to them, have created this current conundrum.[10] > > **The war on terrorism can be won through immigration restrictions** > > - No security expert since September 11, 2001 has said that restrictive immigration measures would have prevented the terrorist attacks—instead, the key is good use of good intelligence. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were here on legal tourist or student visas (but some did overstay on those). Since 9/11, the myriad of measures targeting immigrants in the name of national security have netted no terrorism prosecutions. In fact, several of these measures could have the opposite effect and actually make us less safe, as targeted communities of immigrants are afraid to come forward with information.[11] > > **Illegal immigrants are the source of many communicable diseases** > > - Anti-immigrant advocates including Lou Dobbs have claimed that Mexican border-crossers are the source of a rampant increase in leprosy. CDC and Department for Health and Human Services statistics do not bear this myth out.[12] > > **Illegal immigrants cause crime** > > - Whilst a common cry of the anti immigration brigade - and the font of endless anecdotal “evidence” - the facts[13][14] don’t support this. > > **Problems that arise when blanket deportation is attempted** > > - It’s fair to assume that industries that are largely dependent on the hard work of illegal immigrants would collapse, or at least suffer a major setback. > > **External links** > > - Washington Post: [“5 Myths About Immigration”](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/30/AR2010043001106.html) > 1.↑ National Academy of Sciences, Cato Institute, Urban Institute, Social Security Administration > 2.↑ [http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8711/12-6-Immigration.pdf](http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8711/12-6-Immigration.pdf) page 14 of this Congressional Budget Office paper > 3.↑ American Immigration Lawyers Association, Urban Institute > 4.↑ Cato Institute, Inter-American Development Bank > 5.↑ Brookings Institution > 6.↑ National Academy of Sciences, Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University, Federal Reserve > 7.↑ U.S. Census Bureau, U.S. Department of Homeland Security (Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services) > 8.↑ U.S. Census Bureau > 9.↑ INS Statistical Yearbook > 10.↑ Cato Institute > 11.↑ Newspaper articles, various security experts, and think tanks, prepared by the National Immigration Forum, June 2003 > 12.↑ American Immigration Lawyers Association, MYTH: Undocumented Immigrants Bring Communicable Diseases Into the Country, Colorado Media Matters report. > 13.↑ [http://articles.cnn.com/2010-04-29/justice/arizona.immigration.crime\_1\_sen-russell-pearce-illegal-immigration-immigration-law?\_s=PM:CRIME](http://articles.cnn.com/2010-04-29/justice/arizona.immigration.crime_1_sen-russell-pearce-illegal-immigration-immigration-law?_s=PM:CRIME) > 14.↑ [http://immigration.lohudblogs.com/2009/06/24/fact-check-illegal-immigrants-and-crime/](http://immigration.lohudblogs.com/2009/06/24/fact-check-illegal-immigrants-and-crime/) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/131 "2012-06-17T00:48:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > From [RationalWiki](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Myths_and_facts_about_immigration_to_the_United_States) (non-copyrighted material): nice pile of straw. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/132 "2012-06-17T00:51:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How is it not besides the point? If there are people from other countries deserving of US citizenship why are we allowing one country to dominate and overload our system? It’s beside the point because you were talking about people’s decision to come to the US illegally, and the subject under discussion is about children who had that decision made for them by others. I looked for a cite that one country is in fact dominating and overloading the system, because that seemed unlikely. I found that according to Homeland Security, somewhere in the 50–60% range of so-called “unauthorized immigrants” are from Mexico (data from 2000–2008), more than ten times the amount for any other country in that period. I was surprised by the numbers, and it makes me think a better solution to the issue would take that into account somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/133 "2012-06-17T00:59:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > nice pile of straw. How can you not understand what a straw man is at this point? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/134 "2012-06-17T01:12:07Z")
After reading this thread I can only add one comment: I sincerely hope that Mitt Romney decides to take the exact position (and make exactly the same arguments) that **magellan01** and company has laid out. Particularly the parts about the unfairness of _not_ deporting someone that was brought here as a young child. A nice GOP-supported lawsuit to force said deportations would be even better. Barring that (because I don’t think Romney or the GOP is that stupid), I’m looking forward to a debate where Romney is forced to agree with the content of the policy and that he wouldn’t overturn it if elected. That should make his base eager to support him. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/135 "2012-06-17T01:16:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How is it not besides the point? If there are people from other countries deserving of US citizenship why are we allowing one country to dominate and overload our system? Assuming you’re serious, I’d say it’s because [national-origins quotas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924) have a very ugly history. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/136 "2012-06-17T01:19:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > nice pile of straw. It is not strawmanning at all, to attribute to immigration-opponents such positions as “Illegal immigrants cause crime” or “Illegal immigrants are the source of many communicable diseases” or “Immigrants take jobs and opportunity away from Americans.” I encounter bullshit like that **all the time** on the Intertubes, sometimes on this Board. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/137 "2012-06-17T01:31:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > My heart goes out to you. I always bring up the situations of people like you in these types of threads and people just hand wave it away. I think it’s unfair and immoral that people like you who have been waiting in line, with great patience and frustration, have to see others accommodated. They break the law and things work out the way they wanted. You follow the law and you’re just told to wait longer…while time, effort and resources have to be spent making accommodations for the lawbreakers and their families. The pisses me off mightily. It’s so blatantly unfair. I can only imagine how much angrier I would be if I were in your shoes. I’ll ask you the same thing I asked **Iggy** , stressing once again that I don’t know the answer to my question: how do you know that the Obama administration’s new policies discussed here will result in later processing of other applications? Iggy’s family members have presumably submitted applications, as will those who are covered in the new policy. How do you know who will be processed first? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/138 "2012-06-17T01:32:43Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It’s beside the point because you were talking about people’s decision to come to the US illegally, and the subject under discussion is about children who had that decision made for them by others. It’s not that I’m without sympathy and I can see how it’s an emotional issue. The line in the sand doesn’t move because there is emotional angle to it. The President referred to it as a temporary fix. A temporary fix to what? The only answer to that is citizenship. If you want to apply an emotional angle to it then consider the inequity of jumping to the head of the line. This is just wrong. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I looked for a cite that one country is in fact dominating and overloading the system, because that seemed unlikely. I found that according to Homeland Security, somewhere in the 50–60% range of so-called “unauthorized immigrants” are from Mexico (data from 2000–2008), more than ten times the amount for any other country in that period. I was surprised by the numbers, and it makes me think a better solution to the issue would take that into account somehow. I’ve been through economic hell the last 5 years as have many others. I have to prove my citizenship when applying for a job and I see no reason why this isn’t uniformly enforced. I’ve also done the work people claim nobody else will do. If nobody will truly do it then work visa’s are the answer. That’s always been an option. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/139 "2012-06-17T01:35:45Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > After reading this thread I can only add one comment: I sincerely hope that Mitt Romney decides to take the exact position (and make exactly the same arguments) that **magellan01** and company has laid out. Particularly the parts about the unfairness of _not_ deporting someone that was brought here as a young child. > > A nice GOP-supported lawsuit to force said deportations would be even better. > > Barring that (because I don’t think Romney or the GOP is that stupid), I’m looking forward to a debate where Romney is forced to agree with the content of the policy and that he wouldn’t overturn it if elected. That should make his base eager to support him. Or, he could address the graduating class of the University of Colorado and say something like, “Congratulations graduates. Good luck getting a job now that there are tens of thousands of formerly ineligible illegal aliens that are now qualified to take the positions that you just spent four years studying and paying for.” ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/140 "2012-06-17T01:37:20Z")
> [@Rysdad](#): > > Or, he could address the graduating class of the University of Colorado and say something like, “Congratulations graduates. Good luck getting a job now that there are tens of thousands of formerly ineligible illegal aliens that are now qualified to take the positions that you just spent four years studying and paying for.” Anyone who says something like that better hope they’re speaking to a crowd of people dumb enough to believe that a smaller, less robust economy benefits them. Perhaps it will work if the entire University of Colorado graduating class is hoping to become repo men. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310.md?page=8)