# Obama: DHS will issue work visas to young undocumented immigrants **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 16, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310 "2012-06-16T02:07:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/161 "2012-06-17T03:13:21Z")
I can see an Onion headline forming: Obama Fucks 21-Year Old Hispanic Chick! Speaking from her apartment in Houston, 21-year old illegal immigrant Estrella de la Asuncion says, “I came here with my brother five years ago. We spent three days dodging La Migra through the desert, living on centipedes and drinking the sweat from our socks. Now, since he’s one year younger than me, he gets to stay and I get my ass booted out! How is that fair? Obama fucked me.” ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/162 "2012-06-17T03:16:09Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > It is a false premise, repeated over and over again in immigration debates. (in this case even being accepted and put forward by some supporting the policy in question) It isn’t a matter of “Their parents are ‘illegal’ but the kids don’t deserve to pay for that” - almost half of them did not cross the border illegally but simply overstayed a visa, or otherwise entered legally and blended into society without renewing their papers or taking the steps to apply for permanent residency or citizenship. Immigration paperwork is a clerical issue, an administrative task, not a criminal investigation. A person being undocumented in no way by itself indicates, to any reasonable person, that they committed any crime when they entered the US originally. To me, this is worse. They knew the law. They chose to ignore it. Which laws can I ignore? Besides, by your own admission, it indicates that more than “almost half” did, in fact, commit a crime when they entered the country. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/163 "2012-06-17T03:24:00Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Everyone in the US is entitled to due process, however they arrived. “Illegals” as a group can’t be deported because each individual case has to be reviewed for its own specific circumstances. Not accoding to Napolitano…depending on when she speaks. Nor anymore, for that matter. > [@](#): > > In many of these cases nothing more than a visit to an immigration office to renew forms and pay fees would be required to resolve the case. Then why are there so many illegal aliens, because they either don’t want or can’t afford to pay the fee? Can I ignore fees, like for license plates or driver’s license renewal? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/164 "2012-06-17T03:25:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Well how about you actually contribute to THOSE debates when their taking place, little Miss Linda Richmond? How the fuck is it helpful to a debate to inject 20 fucking topics at once? How is it **not** helpful? Some of those had already been **raised** in this thread. The rest are worth forestalling. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/165 "2012-06-17T03:25:56Z")
> [@Rysdad](#): > > To me, this is worse. They knew the law. They chose to ignore it. Which laws can I ignore? > > Besides, by your own admission, it indicates that more than “almost half” did, in fact, commit a crime when they entered the country. You can feel free to tear the tag off your couch cushion. If you’re asking about immigration law, we don’t know that they ignored a law. We don’t know anything about their case. They have a right to due process and an immigraton official needs to make that judgement. There are 12-15 million potential cases to review so how do you propose they should be prioritized? As to the 55% or so of the other undocumented immigrants, yes it does appear they must have crossed the border illegally. But do you have any evidence of that? Were they caught red-handed, or captured on video? Is someone willing to make a sworn statement that they saw them cross the border illegally? Due process is required, once again, in each and every case, no matter how you want to approach it. That is very expensive and time consuming and those cases all still need to be prioritized meaning some could be deported right away and some might not have their case reviewed for years. Which ones would you put at the front of the line and which at the back? ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/166 "2012-06-17T03:31:36Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Do you support giving kids with no papers (usually very expired visas) a shot at the military? A lot of mine would do it if they could, but they can’t without green cards. Yes, provided they’re otherwise of good character meet all the other enlistment requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/167 "2012-06-17T03:44:32Z")
It will be fun to see what all those defending this Obama’s power grab today will say when President Romney (or whoever) decides to tell the IRS not to prosecute anyone who doesn’t declare his capital gains on their taxes, instead of working to pass a law to lower capital gains tax to 0. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/168 "2012-06-17T03:44:45Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > You can feel free to tear the tag off your couch cushion. Heh. > [@](#): > > If you’re asking about immigration law, we don’t know that they ignored a law. We don’t know anything about their case. They have a right to due process and an immigraton official needs to make that judgement. There are 12-15 million potential cases to review so how do you propose they should be prioritized? You just said they did. Anyway, the answer to the question of “Why didn’t you renew your documentation when you were supposed to?” could go a long way toward resolving that issue. > [@](#): > > As to the 55% or so of the other undocumented immigrants, yes it does appear they must have crossed the border illegally. But do you have any evidence of that? You just said they did. How do _you_ know? That’s how I know. > [@](#): > > Were they caught red-handed, or captured on video? Multiple times. They’re like boomerangs. > [@](#): > > Is someone willing to make a sworn statement that they saw them cross the border illegally? I don’t know, is there? > [@](#): > > Due process is required, once again, in each and every case, no matter how you want to approach it. That is very expensive and time consuming and those cases all still need to be prioritized meaning some could be deported right away and some might not have their case reviewed for years. Which ones would you put at the front of the line and which at the back? The ones with the tattoos go in front. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/169 "2012-06-17T03:45:48Z")
> [@Rysdad](#): > > This one: > > The opinion from the Kansas Court of Appeals came in the Barton County case involving convicted drug dealer Nicholas L. Martinez. Where are you getting it? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/170 "2012-06-17T03:48:05Z")
> [@Rysdad](#): > > Farmer Jane, > > See if you can come up with anything that might fall under the umbrella of “social services” that isn’t welfare. > > I’ll give you a minute. > > Time’s up. > > See where you went wrong there? Medicare is not welfare. Medicaid is not welfare. Social Security is not welfare. Unemployment benefits are not welfare. Child Protective Services is not welfare. Public education is not welfare. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/171 "2012-06-17T03:49:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I cited the cost up thread of over 10 billion in California. They’re looking at over a [10 billion dollar budget defici](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/may2012/cali-m01.shtml)t. > > What happens to a $10 billion dollar deficit when you take out $10 billion dollars in costs for illegal aliens? First you need to prove the existence of “$10 billion dollars in costs for illegal aliens.” ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/172 "2012-06-17T03:50:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Where are you getting it? Cite? Google it. I quoted it word for word. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/173 "2012-06-17T03:52:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Medicare is not welfare. Medicaid is not welfare. Social Security is not welfare. Unemployment benefits are not welfare. Child Protective Services is not welfare. Public education is not welfare. Never said they were. Google “social services include” and feel free to pick from the lists that appear. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/174 "2012-06-17T03:52:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It will be fun to see what all those defending this Obama’s power grab today will say when President Romney (or whoever) decides to tell the IRS not to prosecute anyone who doesn’t declare his capital gains on their taxes, instead of working to pass a law to lower capital gains tax to 0. Those of us who aren’t stupid are actually already aware of when the executive was awarded incredibly expanded powers. Of course, what the current executive is doing now is actually totally in accordance with the traditional powers accorded to the executive – whereas what we saw during the preceding administration was an expansion of executive powers unforeseen in U.S. history. But of course, GOP voters like you will inevitably maintain that the problem was not that a GOP president paid lawyers to come up with unconvincing legal rationales to expand the power of the executive – you will complain that his successor didn’t magically wave his magic wand and fix all that, just like you complain that he didn’t wave his wand and magically fix his predecessor’s economic collapse. So, I mean, you have no legitimate argument to make, but I’m sure you knew that already. Hence the pathetic attempt to baffle everyone with bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/175 "2012-06-17T03:57:14Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > \The point is, the system is so byzantine and backlogged and biased that there is no way to use terms like “fair” or “moral” in description of the status quo. **Iggy** ’s point is quite reasonable, but there are a thousand other aspects to the prioritization process in place that he could (and should) object to just as much. And I do. The current immigration system is a mess. That is putting it politely. The administration’s most recent announcement does nothing, IMHO, to make the system any better. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/176 "2012-06-17T03:57:17Z")
> [@](#): > > - Around 75% have legal permanent (immigrant) visas; of the 25% that are here illegally, 40% overstayed temporary (nonimmigrant) visas.[9] Which means that 75% followed the rules, 10% overstayed their visas and 15% are criminals. If you ask me, I’d want more people in my country like the first group and less like the third group. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/177 "2012-06-17T03:57:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The line in the sand doesn’t move because there is emotional angle to it. Of course it does. That is the nature of any “line in the sand.” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/178 "2012-06-17T03:59:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > First you need to prove the existence of “$10 billion dollars in costs for illegal aliens.” Not to mention that isn’t counting how much revenue illegal aliens bring to the state. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/179 "2012-06-17T04:02:28Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Also, as I’ve mentioned, the more you make accommodations for illegals and/or their families, the more you encourage more illegal immigration. And encouraging something that is 1) against the law and 2) bad for the country is just plain dumb. Illegal immigration is not bad for the country. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310/180 "2012-06-17T04:03:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It will be fun to see what all those defending this Obama’s power grab today will say when President Romney (or whoever) decides to tell the IRS not to prosecute anyone who doesn’t declare his capital gains on their taxes, instead of working to pass a law to lower capital gains tax to 0. Depends on whether the executive branch has that discretion under the law. WRT deporting immigrants, it does have it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dhs-will-issue-work-visas-to-young-undocumented-immigrants/625310.md?page=10)