# Obama Doesn't Remember How Big the Debt Is **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 20, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229 "2012-09-20T01:40:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/41 "2012-09-20T05:46:56Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > OMG, he’s not a good bowler. > Conservatives are so incredibly lame and grasping at straws. I dunno what’s wrong with me, but at first glance I saw this as OMG, he’s got a big boner! ---
**Author:** ![moonshot925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@moonshot925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonshot925)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/42 "2012-09-20T06:07:38Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Don’t you think you can cut 50% out of several government agencies with no effect to the economy? > > That doesn’t suggest you know what you’re talking about. You might see a recession but the results would be far better than continuing this out of control spending. Interest payments on the growing national debt will eventually force spending to be cut. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/43 "2012-09-20T06:08:55Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > I dunno what’s wrong with me, but at first glance I saw this as > > OMG, he’s got a big boner! I’m sure that outrages them too. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/44 "2012-09-20T07:01:08Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > 16,020,975,194,914.83 > > [http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np](http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np) It would be just as accurate to refer to debt held by the public or 11,253,532,918,838.73, thereby ignoring money that the government owes to itself. Depending upon the context. So no, it would be silly for Obama to enter into that pretty much wholly irrelevant conversation. There’s no policy misrepresentation here. No substance. But it does give us insight into the modern conservative mentality, which leads them to get their panties in a twist over pretty much everything. For those with a passing interest in reality: [http://www.cepr.net/calculators/calc\_deficit.html](http://www.cepr.net/calculators/calc_deficit.html) [http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/chart-of-the-day-reminder-the-deficit-youre-freaking-out-about-is-bushs-fault.php?ref=fpblg](http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/chart-of-the-day-reminder-the-deficit-youre-freaking-out-about-is-bushs-fault.php?ref=fpblg) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/45 "2012-09-20T07:04:06Z")
Thanks for the link, **pkbites**! I watched until the 2:02 mark. What struck me most was how Obama, in just two minutes, expressed more wisdom about the deficit than the combined GOP can muster in a 5-hour rant-a-thon. BTW, I only skimmed the thread. Has anyone yet explained why knowledge of the _precise_ debt figure is key to the President’s doing his job? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/46 "2012-09-20T07:05:36Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > There’s no policy misrepresentation here. No substance. But it does give us insight into the modern conservative mentality, which leads them to get their panties in a twist over pretty much everything. But to be fair, try keeping _your_ panties untwisted when you take a “wide stance”. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/47 "2012-09-20T07:24:22Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > BTW, I only skimmed the thread. Has anyone yet explained why knowledge of the _precise_ debt figure is key to the President’s doing his job? No one said anything about knowing the precise debt, since any figure given at any point in time would be wrong, given how fast the debt grows. But you would think Obama would know how big the debt was, [given how he criticized Bush for adding trillions to it](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kuTG19Cu_Q&feature=player_embedded). If Bush was unpatriotic, then Obama must be a traitor. (Oh, wait. Obama can do no wrong.) ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/48 "2012-09-20T09:09:54Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > But you would think Obama would know how big the debt was Uh, no, YOU would think it, maybe, since you think “Gotchas” are so important. We want our President to remember figures that matter, figures that he can control any time soon. The real issue is why the GOP refuses to work with him in a meaningful way on the issues we elected him to act upon. If they want some deficit-reduction, that’s so important to them, let them try to show the President that, in exchange for real work on that issue, they’re eager to give him some of what HE thinks is important. Instead, it’s gridlock, foot-dragging, filibuster, spiteful, pointless demagogery all the way down the line. This can only be resolved one way (unless you change your entire way of dealing with a democratically elected President): by grinding you into the dust and getting legislation through the Congress his vision with a Democratic supermajority. I hope you enjoy being ignored, because we won’t feel all that bad when it happens. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/49 "2012-09-20T09:30:56Z")
One thing OMG and I agree on, I think, is that there just _might_ be a _little_ too much hyperbole, from time to time. I normally don’t respond to OMG, since we have nothing to teach each other, but this couldn’t be passed up: > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > given how he criticized Bush for adding trillions to it. If Bush was unpatriotic, then Obama must be a traitor. Wow. Or, rather, **Wow**! Please do display the syllogism that reaches this conclusion. (But if it’s just going to be the usual right-wing rant that “That’s what you liberals would say”, do please give a cite. When I search for your pet themes like “Rich == Evil” the only Doper hits I get are on Dopers like you, pretending liberal Dopers say that.) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/50 "2012-09-20T10:11:30Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > No, this is tit for Tat. Had Bush done this it would have been all over the news and these boards. That’s very likely true. I’m trying to pick up your angle here, are you picking up the sword of truth and conceding that Bush also was a giant dickhole, or are you rejoicing in wallowing in the same pig shit of dumb dishonest arguments as liberal apologists? After considering the odds of a conservative making an honest argument, I’ll take pig shit for $100, Alex. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/51 "2012-09-20T10:50:54Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > It’s a spending problem. It’s duck season! ---
**Author:** ![moonshot925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@moonshot925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonshot925)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/52 "2012-09-20T11:05:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. > > Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion. That is “trillion” with a "T.‘’ That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President’s budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion. \*\* — Senator Barack Obama (D-IL), 16 March 2006 > **[Obama on the Debt Limit](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ceiling-whacks/)** > > In 2006, did Barack Obama speak out against raising the debt limit? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/53 "2012-09-20T12:07:09Z")
Let’s end all this politicking and bickering right now. We send Obama and Romney with identical shopping lists to a typical Kroger supermarket. The first one to figure out how to find the stuff and pay for it is a Man of the People, and wins the election. (cue anguished complaints from Republicans) ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/54 "2012-09-20T12:12:20Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > larger picture of him I think it’s pretty clear (and should be more apparent given the arguments from the conservative posters in this thread). They’re trying to portray Obama as a Keynsian unconcerned with the national debt. Hypocritically, as Sanders points out, given two unfunded wars coupled with a tax cut from the previous administration. It bears repeating that one remedy would be adopting a universal healthcare system in order to reduce costs to European levels. > [@Omg a Black Conservative](#): > > My liberal economics professor told me so! The argument is certainly familiar, though it wasn’t made by a liberal [last I heard it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15402374&postcount=117). > [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Our national debt is big. Dawkins referred to a hypothesis that humans in general are familiar with certain numbers and that at very large or small scales our intuition breaks down (though some people, especially those with autism, are adept at handling them). I can’t find a source for that though. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/55 "2012-09-20T12:13:46Z")
I understand the Republican desperation. Your candidate would fuck up a two car parade. He’s making Dukakis look positively charismatic. He makes Marie Antoinette look like Mother Teresa. You’ve got a loser with a capital L. The buzzards are just waiting for him to stop walking. It’s going so bad for Mittens right now, he’d actually benefit by the release of a sex tape. So you want to reach out and try to find something, anything at all, to say about Obama. I know. It hurts. But it’s not working. It isn’t going to work. If Obama walked on water, you’d start shouting “OMG! Obama can’t swim!” But nobody would listen. We’re all too busy listening to Mitt tell us he can’t make the 47% learn self reliance, like they’re some savage tribe unused to the ways of civilization. Maybe they need Ann to teach them how to use Tupperware for those holiday leftovers. Maybe the great unwashed need to watch dancing horses to learn some culture. It doesn’t matter. Mitt’s campaign coffin has been nailed securely shut. You’re going to live with Obama for four more years. Harry Reid is going to remain Senate Majority Leader. The way it’s going now, Nancy Pelosi is going to be Speaker. It’s over. Time to stop trying to belittle Obama and find your loser for 2016 to run against Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/56 "2012-09-20T14:18:37Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > No, this is tit for Tat. Had Bush done this it would have been all over the news and these boards. Man, imaginary me is such a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/57 "2012-09-20T14:58:33Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Man, imaginary me is such a jerk. He also stole my wallet and claimed he was going to “redistribute” it to some local hookers as part of a “stimulus package”. He then prayed to a picture of Obama, burned a flag and took “In God We Trust” off the currency. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/58 "2012-09-20T15:03:01Z")
Can we include the discussion of Obama creating his own American flag for fund-raising in this thread to keep the Obama outrage contained? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/59 "2012-09-20T15:14:15Z")
One thing Obama knows is we had a\* surplus \*until Bush took over. But, in those days, “Deficits didn’t matter.” I don’t care if the president knows the precise amount of the debt, as long as he continues advancing policies to improve our financial situation. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/60 "2012-09-20T15:14:47Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > It isn’t a problem in the short run. The fact that some guy on SDMB doesn’t think it is a problem gives me no grief. The fact that the likely winner of November’s election doesn’t think it is a problem disturbs, but does not surprise. What does Mr. Obama consider the short run? 2 years? 4 years? What happens when interest rates rise? I believe Mr. Obama will be awakened to the mistaken assumptions of his economic advisors in his second term. The question is, will he double down, or will he look at the “empirical” evidence and listen to the folks who predicted it this time. The former makes him an ideologue, the latter a pragmatist. In any case it’s likely his response will be irrelevent. Default is an inevitibility at this point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229.md?page=4)