# Obama Doesn't Remember How Big the Debt Is **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 20, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229 "2012-09-20T01:40:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/121 "2012-09-20T20:25:39Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I understand the Republican desperation. Your candidate would fuck up a two car parade. He’s making Dukakis look positively charismatic. He makes Marie Antoinette look like Mother Teresa. You’ve got a loser with a capital L. The buzzards are just waiting for him to stop walking. It’s going so bad for Mittens right now, he’d actually benefit by the release of a sex tape. So you want to reach out and try to find something, anything at all, to say about Obama. I know. It hurts. But it’s not working. It isn’t going to work. If Obama walked on water, you’d start shouting “OMG! Obama can’t swim!” But nobody would listen. We’re all too busy listening to Mitt tell us he can’t make the 47% learn self reliance, like they’re some savage tribe unused to the ways of civilization. Maybe they need Ann to teach them how to use Tupperware for those holiday leftovers. Maybe the great unwashed need to watch dancing horses to learn some culture. It doesn’t matter. Mitt’s campaign coffin has been nailed securely shut. You’re going to live with Obama for four more years. Harry Reid is going to remain Senate Majority Leader. The way it’s going now, Nancy Pelosi is going to be Speaker. It’s over. Time to stop trying to belittle Obama and find your loser for 2016 to run against Hillary. Oh my, it appears that **BobLibDem** ’s account has been hacked by Lewis Black! Honestly, that was an amazing rant. This is classic: > [@](#): > > It’s going so bad for Mittens right now, he’d actually benefit by the release of a sex tape. Classic. \ ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/122 "2012-09-20T20:30:05Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > We can’t even agree on facts as simple as crime rates anymore? What next, the color of the sky? It has a Democratic bias, donchaknow. Well Democrats do seem biased towards a blue sky. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/123 "2012-09-20T20:46:47Z")
I’m just amazed to learn that 48 Hours is still on. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/124 "2012-09-20T22:04:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Oh, please. Take a look at some current day crime shows like _48 Hours_ and take note of how many murders are committed by assholes with violent crimes, including rape and murder on occasion, who are legally out of prison and still relatively young men. > [@Marley23](#): > > I know what 48 Hours is, and intentionally or not, you’ve missed my point completely. A show about individual crimes does not provide any evidence about crime on a societal level. The facts are entirely against you here. Word. Never have I ever seen anyone who needs “the plural of anecdote isn’t data” tattooed across their body, like SA. I’ve seriously never seen such a blatant misconception between reality and what’s depicted on television since (and, to be fair, I’m drawing from the other side of the aisle here) Dio started a thread asking us to convince him that NYC was safe and it was cool to ride the subways because the only thing he’d ever seen were '80s movies where thugs and hooligans were always riding them. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/125 "2012-09-20T22:40:12Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > Oh my, it appears that **BobLibDem** ’s account has been hacked by Lewis Black! I just re-read that in Lewis Black’s voice and it’s perfect! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/126 "2012-09-20T22:57:34Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I’m just amazed to learn that 48 Hours is still on. I’ve never seen _48 Hours_. Well, no, I lie, I’ve seen the movie with Nick Nolte and Eddie Murphy. Are we now estimating the rates and proportions of types of crimes based on episodes of an edited reality show? Coincidentally, I’ve never been murdered or raped, I’ve never been given an award in school just for showing up, and apparently school made me functionally literate because I can make sense of what I just typed. There, my reality is just as valid as **Starving Artist** ’s. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/127 "2012-09-20T23:17:44Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Word. Never have I ever seen anyone who needs “the plural of anecdote isn’t data” tattooed across their body, like SA. Yes. I was going to point out that I, personally, have never been the victim of a violent crime. Therefore it’s clear to me that violent crime no longer exists. BTW, the [FBI](http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/preliminary-annual-ucr-jan-dec-2011) says that violent crime (which they define as murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault) has dropped in each of the past four years. As you can see from [this chart](http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/preliminary-annual-ucr-jan-dec-2011/data-tables/table-3), the individual rate for each of these violent crimes has also dropped in each of the past four years. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/128 "2012-09-21T01:00:23Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I’m just amazed to learn that 48 Hours is still on. “On?” What’s this “on” nonsense? _48 Hours_ was a very enjoyable buddy/action flick from 1982, starring Nick Nolte and Eddie Murphy. _Roxanne, you don’t have to turn on the red light…_ ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/129 "2012-09-21T01:13:08Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > Oh my, it appears that **BobLibDem** ’s account has been hacked by Lewis Black! > > Honestly, that was an amazing rant. > This is classic: > Classic. > \ Thank yew! Thankyewverymuch! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/130 "2012-09-21T01:25:37Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [They’ve done studies of what happens to crime rates in different countries in the decades after lead is removed from gasoline.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/07/AR2007070701073_pf.html) I’m not saying it’s the cause, but our experience is consistent with what’s happened in other countries. And I should have added that the removal of lead from gasoline is a librul idea, first taking legislative form in the Clean Air Act of 1970. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/131 "2012-09-21T13:12:51Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Oh, please. Take a look at some current day crime shows like 48 Hours and take note of how many murders are committed by assholes with violent crimes, including rape and murder on occasion, who are legally out of prison and still relatively young men. Spotlight fallacy. By the way, the rosary thing was the result of a [zero tolerance policy designed to target gang members](http://www.care2.com/causes/8th-grader-suspended-for-wearing-rosary-beads.html). ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/132 "2012-09-21T13:34:49Z")
Look, 48 Hours proves there’s still evil murderers around every corner. On the bright side tho, every time I go to someone’s house and they have a beautiful living room, I say, "“wow! this took only two days and came in under a thousand bucks!” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/133 "2012-09-21T14:47:11Z")
> [@gamerununknown](#): > > By the way, the rosary thing was the result of a zero tolerance policy designed to target gang members. Zero tolerance policies are cowardly and idiotic and designed to insulate the powers that be from having to use common sense and judgement in dealing with problems. In other words, they’ve become yet another way for people to avoid personal responsibility. > [@rock party](#): > > Look, 48 Hours proves there’s still evil murderers around every corner. Oops, my mistake. The name of the program is _The First 48_. And what it proves is that 20-something/30-something murderers with rap sheets containing multiple convictions for violent offenses including rape and murder are being apprehended in cities all over the U.S. for committing yet more murders after having served but a fraction of the time they were sentenced to for their original crimes. You know, like I said. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/134 "2012-09-21T15:31:49Z")
[QUOTE=BLD] If Obama walked on water, you’d start shouting “OMG! Obama can’t swim!” But nobody would listen. [/QUOTE] Is this original? 'Cause it’s brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/135 "2012-09-21T16:01:39Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And what it proves is that 20-something/30-something murderers with rap sheets containing multiple convictions for violent offenses including rape and murder are being apprehended in cities all over the U.S. for committing yet more murders after having served but a fraction of the time they were sentenced to for their original crimes. You know, like I said. Sometimes I think banging a cement block against my head would be more productive but something masochistic inside my compels me to respond. Starving Artist, no one is doubting that things seen on a documentary on TV aren’t true. No one is saying there aren’t murders and rapes occurring and no one is saying that some of those murders and rapes aren’t occurring because people were released from prison early. What you’re seeing is all true and all factual. But. It. Is. Not. Data. What you see on a television program specifically designed to show you murders has NO bearing on how widespread the problem is. For an extreme example, imagine that the 180 episodes of The First 48 showed you every single murder that occurred in the US since it started 11 years ago. The producers were just that lucky to be there to capture it as the investigation was happening. From your perspective, the US would be hell in a handbasket because all you’re looking at is 180 episodes of murder on TV. But everyone else is looking at official data that shows that there have been just 180 murders in the entire US since 2001. What an insanely low number! We should be rejoicing. Well, everyone but you, anyway because damnit, there’s still murder going on, you can see it on TV! Do you get the difference between anecdotes and data? Kinda? At least a little bit? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/136 "2012-09-21T16:13:20Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Zero tolerance policies are cowardly and idiotic and designed to insulate the powers that be from having to use common sense and judgement in dealing with problems. In other words, they’ve become yet another way for people to avoid personal responsibility. Of course mandatory sentencing laws are basically zero-tolerance policies applied to the justice system: they both remove the concept of discretion to cover someone’s ass (although mandatory long sentences for violent criminals makes more sense than a lot of school policies). Anyway no one dispute that sometimes people are paroled who should not be paroled and no one disputes that some people are repeat violent offenders. We know those problems exist. They’re unfortunate and we should take every sensible step to keep them to a minimum. You are asserting that these problems are on the rise and out of control and people are living in fear as a result. The facts say you’re wrong. People may not _feel_ that violent crime is way, way down, but there are reasons for that - including sensationalist TV, politicians who know it’s to their advantage to propose harsher and harsher sentences, and the general fact that people are bad at assessing risk. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is this original? 'Cause it’s brilliant. I think Bill Clinton came up with it in 2009. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/137 "2012-09-21T16:16:02Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Sometimes I think banging a cement block against my head would be more productive but something masochistic inside my compels me to respond. > Starving Artist, no one is doubting that things seen on a documentary on TV aren’t true. No one is saying there aren’t murders and rapes occurring and no one is saying that some of those murders and rapes aren’t occurring because people were released from prison early. > What you’re seeing is all true and all factual. But. It. Is. Not. Data. What you see on a television program specifically designed to show you murders has NO bearing on how widespread the problem is. > > For an extreme example, imagine that the 180 episodes of The First 48 showed you every single murder that occurred in the US since it started 11 years ago. The producers were just that lucky to be there to capture it as the investigation was happening. From your perspective, the US would be hell in a handbasket because all you’re looking at is 180 episodes of murder on TV. > > But everyone else is looking at official data that shows that there have been just 180 murders in the entire US since 2001. What an insanely low number! We should be rejoicing. Well, everyone but you, anyway because damnit, there’s still murder going on, you can see it on TV! > > Do you get the difference between anecdotes and data? Kinda? At least a little bit? A big problem on this board is that people often say one thing and people who have conflicting motives either mistakenly misinterpret it or they dishonestly distort it into something else. There is a difference between an example and conclusive proof. My comments regarding _The First 48_ were intended, as is almost always the case when I make such comments, as _examples_ of what I was talking about, highlighted to illustrate the point I was making. Besides, do you or anyone else here really want to contend that early release of violent criminals is not systemic throughout this country anyway? It is to laugh! ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/138 "2012-09-21T16:26:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Oops, my mistake. The name of the program is _The First 48_. > > And what it proves is that 20-something/30-something murderers with rap sheets containing multiple convictions for violent offenses including rape and murder are being apprehended in cities all over the U.S. for committing yet more murders after having served but a fraction of the time they were sentenced to for their original crimes. You know, like I said. You have no point. Yes, there are criminals with multiple arrests doing bad things. This happens under Obama. It happened under GWB, it happened under Clinton, it happened under Bush, and Reagan. The fact that the crime rates have been going _down_ eludes you, but can you get your head around the fact that what you pointing to would continue to happen if Romney was elected? And BTW, it IS _“dramatic television.”_ They _choose_ the cases they show _because_ they are dramatic, _because_ they are shocking, _because_ they are good TV. Who would watch if it were commonplace, run-of-the-mill??? “This week on **The First 48** , detectives sit on an unproductive stake-out, drinking cold coffee, eating stale donuts and peeing into an old soda bottle…” ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/139 "2012-09-21T16:29:15Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > My comments regarding _The First 48_ were intended, as is almost always the case when I make such comments, as _examples_ of what I was talking about, highlighted to illustrate the point I was making. That’s lovely. The rest of us were talking about data. Do you have any data? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229/140 "2012-09-21T16:30:15Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > That’s lovely. The rest of us were talking about data. > > Do you have any data? It is to laugh! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-doesnt-remember-how-big-the-debt-is/635229.md?page=8)