# Obama: don't give in to those fuckers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 6, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158 "2010-12-06T16:36:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/101 "2010-12-07T23:35:06Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Well, I can sure see how a “fair tax” would be favored by the wealthy. It would make them rich beyond their wildest dreams. Sales taxes are regressive and burden the lower income groups far more onerously than an income tax does. There are countries in Europe that use this sort of value added tax (VAT) on goods, and the rates are often in the \>20% range (in Denmark, it’s 25%). They might as well be paying an income tax. No. Most assuredly NOT a VAT. A one-time sales tax paid at point of final consumption. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/102 "2010-12-08T00:33:28Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > No. Most assuredly NOT a VAT. A one-time sales tax paid at point of final consumption. This still seems like it’s more of a burden than a relief. Sales taxes are not the friend of the poor, as it takes a disproportionately larger amount of their income to pay the tax than for more well-off folks. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/103 "2010-12-09T00:35:27Z")
I still think Obama is screwing up politically, appearing ineffectual. But, as I posted in another thread, the following cites give a slightly different perspective. First, Andrew Leonard at [salon.com](http://salon.com) makes the case that [the deal would only be worse if not passed now](http://www.salon.com/news/taxes/index.html?story=/tech/htww/2010/12/08/why_the_tax_cut_deal_rebellion_will_fail): > [@](#): > > When John Boehner takes over the House and the Democratic Senate majority drops by another handful, we’re going to see congressional Republicans cook up a much _worse_ deal and send it to the White House. At that point, Obama’s only option will be to veto the legislation, and lead the nation into complete complete political gridlock while taxes rise for everyone and hundreds of thousands of people lose their unemployment benefits…But no matter what we think, Republican leverage only grows as we get closer to the new Congress. The chances that a tax cut deal gets worse seem far higher than that it gets better. If Leonard’s reasoning in the article is correct, then the deal is pretty much a lock. Personally, I don’t like it, but since I think Obama pre-compromised (thanks for the terminology, **Merijeek** ), perhaps it’s the best that can be expected at this point. However, Andrew Sullivan thinks that [Obama suckered the Republicans](http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/12/obama-president-mcconnell-sucker.html): > [@](#): > > This is the difference between tactics and strategy. The GOP has won again on tactics, but keeps losing on strategy. More broadly, as this sinks in, Obama’s ownership of this deal will help restore the sense that he is in command of events, and has shifted to the center (even though he is steadily advancing center-left goals)…The president urgently needs to get the new START and DADT through the Senate…If he can pull all this off by Christmas - and the Senate should indeed stay open for an extra week - the last Congress will indeed be viewed by historians as one of the most substantive (and liberal) in recent history. And Obama will have orchestrated it - while ending up firmly planted and rebranded in the center. ---
**Author:** ![FE3O4ENAIL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@FE3O4ENAIL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FE3O4ENAIL)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/104 "2010-12-09T01:20:01Z")
“Obama’s ownership of this deal will help restore the sense that he is in command of events” Sure, kinda like PeeWee Herman after he stops his bike, still standing- " I meant to do that". ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/105 "2010-12-09T01:35:08Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > However, Andrew Sullivan thinks that [Obama suckered the Republicans](http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/12/obama-president-mcconnell-sucker.html): Heh. Sullivan is full of shit. There’s a reason people voted for Obama in 2008; a reason that resulted in a victory margin far more resounding than Bush’s elections. And he’s pissing it away. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/106 "2010-12-09T01:41:10Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > he’s pissing it away. Pissed it away. I’m getting good and sick of his [constant chiding of Democrats](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2010/12/08/obama_chides_democrats_calls_tax_deal_unavoidable/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+Top+political+stories) I VOTED for a _Democrat_ and it seems all I got was Another Stupid Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/107 "2010-12-09T02:51:48Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Pissed it away. > I’m getting good and sick of his [constant chiding of Democrats](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2010/12/08/obama_chides_democrats_calls_tax_deal_unavoidable/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+Top+political+stories) > > I VOTED for a _Democrat_ > and it seems all I got was > Another Stupid Republican. He’s not chiding Democrats. He’s chiding people like you – a sub-set of Democrats who want to fight losing symbolic battles. And it’s not nearly as constant as it should rightly be, because he has to coddle your fragile ego otherwise you’ll do something stupid like not vote and let a Republican get elected because you can’t tell the difference between a pragmatist Democrat and Sarah Palin. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/108 "2010-12-09T03:14:29Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > He’s not chiding Democrats. He’s chiding people like you – a sub-set of Democrats who want to fight losing symbolic battles. You Lie. A battle isn’t symbolic when there’s hundreds of billions of dollars at stake. You know that. You’re not stupid enough not to know that. Therefore you are a liar. Your presupposition that the battle is lost is also dishonest. Nothing’s over until it is over. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/109 "2010-12-09T03:20:38Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > You Lie. > A battle isn’t symbolic when there’s hundreds of billions of dollars at stake. > You know that. You’re not stupid enough not to know that. > Therefore you are a liar. > > Your presupposition that the battle is lost is also dishonest. > Nothing’s over until it is over. Uh, those aren’t separate premises there big guy. If the battle is lost, any fight is symbolic. And plenty of political things are over before they’re over. Your attitude is precisely the one that is justifiably lampooned. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/110 "2010-12-09T04:09:12Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Uh, those aren’t separate premises there big guy. If the battle is lost, any fight is symbolic. Ohh, you’re an Ivory tower style of liar. Gotcha-ya! Tell me all about how The American revolution was a symbolic battle for the Brits. It migh be worth a laugh. Or not. I guess you actually _might_ be stupid enough to believe your own bullshit. Speaking of “Done deals” and battles that are over: [Obama strives to mollify party on tax-cut deal](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/8/obama-steps-up-efforts-to-sell-tax-cut-deal-to-ang/) > [@](#): > > President Obama finds himself in a quest for Democratic votes on Capitol Hill as mounting liberal anger over his tax-cut deal with Republicans has him pressuring lawmakers from the outside with high-profile endorsements and deploying White House officials to cajole them from the inside. > > The dilemma over the Bush-era tax cuts means Mr. Obama will not be able to rely on support from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi or Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, both of whom have joined rank-and-file Democrats in expressing concern about the compromise the president struck earlier this week with the GOP. That’s the Washington Times saying that, so you can take it as ‘personal gospel’. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/111 "2010-12-09T05:07:23Z")
Didn’t we used to have a contingent of tighty-righty scouts here, people who would go lurk at the rightarded sites and report back what kinds of conversations they were having? Bet there would be an interesting parallel, Trog Republicans beating up on Corporados over this. Anybody wanna volunteer? I’d do it, of course, but I am old and in delicate mental health. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/112 "2010-12-09T05:08:19Z")
Hey, he gave in to the fuckers. What a surprise. Unless future generations and the stability of the economy are the fuckers. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/113 "2010-12-09T11:56:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Didn’t we used to have a contingent of tighty-righty scouts here, people who would go lurk at the rightarded sites and report back what kinds of conversations they were having? Bet there would be an interesting parallel, Trog Republicans beating up on Corporados over this. Anybody wanna volunteer? I always flick on right-wing talk radio during the drive home from work; the last couple of days, they’ve been incredibly pissed off about extending the unemployment benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/114 "2010-12-09T13:07:50Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Heh. Sullivan is full of shit. Yeah. But it’s about the only (fairly) positive piece I’ve seen. ☹ Maybe he’s petitioning for membership in the “_we create reality_” club? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/115 "2010-12-09T15:09:53Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I always flick on right-wing talk radio during the drive home from work; the last couple of days, they’ve been incredibly pissed off about extending the unemployment benefits. Thus having moved—right on schedule—from Phase I (Getting Mine) to Phase II (Outrage that Someone Else Got Theirs). ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/116 "2010-12-09T16:08:24Z")
I got a form letter from Joe Biden today telling me how the prez ‘reached across the aisle’ and got this good deal for the American worker. I guess their definition of compromise is to cave in completely. Sorry Joe: it just doesn’t spin, no matter how wildly you swing at it. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/117 "2010-12-09T16:47:45Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I got a form letter from Joe Biden today telling me how the prez ‘reached across the aisle’ and got this good deal for the American worker. I guess their definition of compromise is to cave in completely. Sorry Joe: it just doesn’t spin, no matter how wildly you swing at it. What do you think of Weiden in 2012? He looks kinda nerdy, but he has good ideas and is not afraid to stand up for them. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/118 "2010-12-09T16:51:26Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Pissed it away. > I’m getting good and sick of his [constant chiding of Democrats](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2010/12/08/obama_chides_democrats_calls_tax_deal_unavoidable/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+Top+political+stories) > > I VOTED for a _Democrat_ > and it seems all I got was > Another Stupid Republican. Same here. I also voted for him, and I consider that to have been a mistake now, even considering WHO would have been “one heartbeat away from the Presidency”. I voted for the transparency thing, the don’t start more wars thig, the “hopey changey thing”, and the “health care thing” and fuzzy kittens and unicorns farting rainbows and puking puppies. Instead I got Bush Light" and a scolding? Hey B.O., have a nice hot steaming cup of Shut The Fuck Up. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/119 "2010-12-09T19:05:30Z")
The latest absurdity: Senate Republicans have [blocked passage](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/nyregion/10health.html?_r=1&hp) of medical care for 9/11 workers, saying: > [@](#): > > Republicans have been raising concerns about how to pay for the $7.4 billion measure, while Democrats, led by Senator Kirsten E. Gillibrand of New York, have argued that the nation had a moral obligation to assist those who put their lives at risk during rescue operations at ground zero. Why not just pull the money out of your ass like you’re doing for the tax breaks, you hypocritical motherfuckers? Let’s see, $7B is about 1.5% of the $450B they’re willing to give away just to the wealthy tax recipients over the next two years. Of course, a lot of the rich folks are firefighters and cops, right? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158/120 "2010-12-09T19:46:05Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > The latest absurdity: Senate Republicans have [blocked passage](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/nyregion/10health.html?_r=1&hp) of medical care for 9/11 workers, saying: > > Why not just pull the money out of your ass like you’re doing for the tax breaks, you hypocritical motherfuckers? Let’s see, $7B is about 1.5% of the $450B they’re willing to give away just to the wealthy tax recipients over the next two years. Of course, a lot of the rich folks are firefighters and cops, right? I love how, in the liberal mind, taking less money away from people who earned it is precisely the same as a “give away” of money to “wealthy tax recipients.” No. Argue all you like that wise governance is to tax those people more, but stop pretending that you’re doing anything other than taking more money away from people that earned it, not giving them money they didn’t earn. But I’m not even that upset about it. Because, you see, I voted for Obama, and I think he’s doing the right thing. So I’m pretty happy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-dont-give-in-to-those-fuckers/563158.md?page=7)