# Obama Feints To the Left **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330 "2015-01-20T00:28:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/181 "2015-01-21T22:15:02Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > As always, there are [two sides](http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/376587/americas-infrastructure-isnt-crumbling-patrick-brennan) to every story. There are usually more than two. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/182 "2015-01-21T22:41:03Z")
The Department of Education was created under Carter, when K-12 was already free in all 50 states. It was created, along with the Department of Energy, solely as a political gimmick to demonstrate that the federal government was “doing something” about two areas that were considered to be in crisis at the time. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/183 "2015-01-21T22:43:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If one takes the position that as long as there is one dollar of fat in the budget then one cannot consider any revenue increases then I say that position is foolish. I doubt anyone takes that position, but it is sensible to not throw billions of new money at agencies that already waste billions. You’ll tend to just get more waste. Since infrastructure has been mentioned, one of the problems we’ve had with infrastructure spending is that politicians prefer new projects to maintenance. Better photo ops, more jobs, at least initially. If you believe that the problem we have with our infrastructure is that we need MORE roads and bridges, then it makes sense to increase infrastructure spending. However, if you believe the problem is that the ones we have are crumbling, then we have to reform the process first, otherwise most of the money will just be used on stuff we don’t need right now, like bridges to nowhere and roads to some campaign donor’s private estate. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/184 "2015-01-21T22:48:14Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If there are roughly 200,000 “progressives” who voted for the minimum wage increase, but not Mark Pryor, for which candidate did those 200,000 voters cast their ballot? > > Are you contending that **200,000 progressives** voted for Tea Party-endorsed candidate Tom Cotton? If so, your theory is laughable. No, I’m maintaining that they did not vote for any candidates, just the minimum wage increase. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/185 "2015-01-21T22:51:58Z")
If someone supports the minimum wage increase, but does not appreciate the performance of the President, and are generally nonideological, they very well would vote for Tom Cotton. In 2006, there were a lot of gay marriage initiatives on the ballot. Bans of gay marriage actually. Every one of them passed. And the Republicans went down with them. People were against gay marriage but supported Democrats. For the nonideological, as in, most voters, the performance if the President is what most elections are about. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/186 "2015-01-21T23:22:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What about “Calls for a “bipartisan infrastructure plan” to upgrade America’s ports, bridges, etc.”? There’s no shame in being bipartisan . . . I mean, we all experimented a little in college . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/187 "2015-01-21T23:24:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Department of Education was created under Carter, when K-12 was already free in all 50 states. It was created, along with the Department of Energy, solely as a political gimmick to demonstrate that the federal government was “doing something” about two areas that were considered to be in crisis at the time. How do you know that? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/188 "2015-01-21T23:27:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No. This is factually incorrect. > Again, clearly and demonstrably false. Your own cite says the opposite of this. No it doesn’t. It shows deficits by year. Obama presided over most of the FY 09 deficit. Most of the FY 09 deficit was due to Bush’s policies. Both of these statements are consistent with the article. You are incorrect and clearly and demonstrably false. The 09 deficit was mostly from Bush’s policies – mostly policies that Obama had nothing to do with. It’s factually true that Obama reduced the deficit by about 2/3rds from when he took office. Each one of these sentences is factually true, and consistent with my cite. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/189 "2015-01-21T23:47:22Z")
“Obama reduced the deficit” is factually false. He “presided” over a lower deficit, just as he “presided” over a higher deficit in 09. Obama has opposed the deficit reduction accomplished by Congress every step of the way and opposes it in his upcoming budget as well. You can’t take credit for things that happened in spite of your opposition. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/190 "2015-01-21T23:49:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > “Obama reduced the deficit” is factually false. He “presided” over a lower deficit, just as he “presided” over a higher deficit in 09. Obama has opposed the deficit reduction accomplished by Congress every step of the way and opposes it in his upcoming budget as well. You can’t take credit for things that happened in spite of your opposition. It’s not factually false any more than “Obama accomplished the ACA” is factually false. It’s shorthand for “Obama supported and/or signed bills that led to XXX”, when it’s a legislative (or series of legislative) accomplishment(s). In short, it’s true. And it’s false that Obama opposed deficit reduction. He just wanted to go about it in a different way. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/191 "2015-01-21T23:50:14Z")
Furthermore, one of the bright spots in the economy has been the expansion of fossil fuel production, and Obama opposed that as well. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/192 "2015-01-21T23:51:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Department of Education was created under Carter, when K-12 was already free in all 50 states. **It was created, along with the Department of Energy, solely as a political gimmick to demonstrate that the federal government was “doing something” about two areas that were considered to be in crisis at the time**. Dp you have a cite for the part I helpfully bolded? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/193 "2015-01-21T23:52:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not factually false any more than “Obama accomplished the ACA” is factually false. Obama supported ACA, urged its passage, and signed it. He is responsible for ACA. Obama opposed less spending, promised to veto less spending, and then made a deal for less spending while complaining about it the whole time, and continues to propose budgets with much higher spending. > [@](#): > > And it’s false that Obama opposed deficit reduction. He just wanted to go about it in a different way. His budgets say he opposed deficit reduction. If he had his way, spending would be $400 billion higher. Even if we enacted every one of his proposed tax changes, he’d still have a deficit at least $300 billion higher than we have now. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/194 "2015-01-21T23:54:34Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Dp you have a cite for the part I helpfully bolded? Do you have a cite that there were legitimate policy reasons to upgrade the Dept. of education from office status to cabinet status? Everything is political in DC. You know that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/195 "2015-01-22T00:06:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > His budgets say he opposed deficit reduction. If he had his way, spending would be $400 billion higher. Even if we enacted every one of his proposed tax changes, he’d still have a deficit at least $300 billion higher than we have now. No, the budgets he signed say he was for reducing the deficit. The rest was negotiation. The compromise was what actually happened. He actually gets credit for that too (and he’s not the only one). It’s correct to say Congress reduced the deficit, and the Senate reduced the deficit. All three did. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/196 "2015-01-22T00:22:40Z")
He gets credit for making deals rather than shutting down the government, I’ll give him that much. But he has been on record as demanding more spending and not proposing even close to enough tax revenue to make up for it. It is a fact that he has wanted more deficit spending than the Republicans during his Presidency. A lot more. It’s also a fact that he wanted less oil production, and there has been less oil production on public lands. The fact that he didn’t go out of his way to make it more difficult to drill on private land doesn’t mean he gets credit for increased oil production. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/197 "2015-01-22T00:42:03Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Furthermore, one of the bright spots in the economy has been the expansion of fossil fuel production, and Obama opposed that as well. [New study: To avoid catastrophic climate change, most of the world’s fossil fuels must remain in the ground.](http://www.salon.com/2015/01/07/unburnable_to_avoid_catastrophic_climate_change_most_of_the_worlds_fossil_fuels_must_remain_in_the_ground/) The economy isn’t everything. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/198 "2015-01-22T00:43:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If he had his way, spending would be $400 billion higher… If that had happened, the economy would be a lot healthier. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/199 "2015-01-22T00:46:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Do you have a cite that there were legitimate policy reasons to upgrade the Dept. of education from office status to cabinet status? I made no such claim. Do you have a cite to back up your assertion? > [@adaher](#): > > Everything is political in DC. You know that. Telling someone “you know that” is rude, IMO. It’s an attempt to force agreement from someone with whom you are currently not in agreement, and as a debate tactic is nothing but deceitful passive-aggressive bullying, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/200 "2015-01-22T00:47:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Do you have a cite that there were legitimate policy reasons to upgrade the Dept. of education from office status to cabinet status? [Here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Education#Establishment) > [@](#): > > In 1979, President Carter advocated for creating a cabinet-level Department of Education.[5] Carter’s plan was to transfer most of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare’s education-related functions to the Department of Education.[5] Carter also planned to transfer the education-related functions of the departments of Defense, Justice, Housing and Urban Development, and Agriculture, as well as a few other federal entities.[5] Among the federal education-related programs that were not proposed to be transferred were Headstart, the Department of Agriculture’s school lunch and nutrition programs, the Department of the Interior’s Indian education programs, and the Department of Labor’s education and training programs.[5] I.e., there was **already** a Cabinet-level department in charge of education. This was not an expansion of government’s role, it was just a reorganization and regrouping of existing sub-Cabinet agencies. Similar to the creation of the Department of Homeland Security in 2002. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330.md?page=11)