# Obama Feints To the Left **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330 "2015-01-20T00:28:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/201 "2015-01-22T00:49:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > No, I’m maintaining that they did not vote for any candidates, just the minimum wage increase. But the number of votes cast for Senate candidates and for the minimum wage increase was basically the same. So, is your theory that there were another 200,000 voter who cast ballots for Senate candidates but not the minimum wage proposal? Seriously, your theory is as detached from plausibility as those who deny global warming. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/202 "2015-01-22T01:27:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [New study: To avoid catastrophic climate change, most of the world’s fossil fuels must remain in the ground.](http://www.salon.com/2015/01/07/unburnable_to_avoid_catastrophic_climate_change_most_of_the_worlds_fossil_fuels_must_remain_in_the_ground/) > > The economy isn’t everything. Until the Democrats bravely make that case and actually persuade voters of that fact, it will continue to be everything. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/203 "2015-01-22T01:42:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > … You can’t take credit for things that happened in spite of your opposition. This is definitely one of my very favorite **adaher** istic aphorisms. I shall remind you of it, from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/204 "2015-01-22T02:29:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [New study: To avoid catastrophic climate change, most of the world’s fossil fuels must remain in the ground.](http://www.salon.com/2015/01/07/unburnable_to_avoid_catastrophic_climate_change_most_of_the_worlds_fossil_fuels_must_remain_in_the_ground/) > > The economy isn’t everything. Are you proposing, as a policy, that “most fossil fuels must remain the ground”? If so, what are the real world ramifications? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/205 "2015-01-22T02:35:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you proposing, as a policy, that “most fossil fuels must remain the ground”? If so, what are the real world ramifications? Nuclear power, for one, at least it produces wastes we know how to sequester; and, more solar and wind power. Beyond that, upgrading and expanding rail transportation networks, both passenger and freight (I mean conventional, not high-speed; HSR is important, but of secondary importance) and local mass-transit systems. That leaves the fossil fuels for air travel – can’t think of any substitute there that is not too dangerous to consider, we certainly don’t want nuclear-powered airplanes in the skies. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/206 "2015-01-22T02:39:40Z")
It’s not just Obama who is on a winning streak: my prediction that this SOTU would be the lowest rated yet was corrrect: > **[Obama’s SOTU bombs in the ratings](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/230323-tv-ratings-for-speech-lowest-of-obamas-presidency/)** > > Nielsen said about 31.7 million people tuned in, the lowest total of his presidency. So what happens if the President is supposedly on a winning streak but no one is paying attention to him anymore? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/207 "2015-01-22T02:42:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s not just Obama who is on a winning streak: my prediction that this SOTU would be the lowest rated yet was corrrect: > > [http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/230323-tv-ratings-for-speech-lowest-of-obamas-presidency](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/230323-tv-ratings-for-speech-lowest-of-obamas-presidency) > > So what happens if the President is supposedly on a winning streak but no one is paying attention to him anymore? Then he still wins, because **we** win, whether we pay attention or not. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/208 "2015-01-22T02:47:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s not just Obama who is on a winning streak: my prediction that this SOTU would be the lowest rated yet was corrrect: > > [http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/230323-tv-ratings-for-speech-lowest-of-obamas-presidency](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/230323-tv-ratings-for-speech-lowest-of-obamas-presidency) > > So what happens if the President is supposedly on a winning streak but no one is paying attention to him anymore? It’s a special kind of grotesque that bases the success of a state of the union address on how it did in the ratings. It’s typically Republican, though. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/209 "2015-01-22T02:59:35Z")
Um, the success of a speech is in large part a function of how many people are listening. And guess who was and wasn’t listening? > [@](#): > > Fox News led the cable networks with nearly 3.5 million viewers. CNN placed second with just over 2.5 million, while MSNBC came in third with just under 2 million Americans tuning in. His own supporters are still as disconnected and unmotivated as ever. His audience, like the midterm electorate, leaned conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/210 "2015-01-22T03:10:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Um, the success of a speech is in large part a function of how many people are listening. And guess who was and wasn’t listening? Uh, isn’t the right wing dogma that the audience for CNN and MSNBC consist entirely of left-wing loonies? If so, my math says that 4.5 million pinkos watched the speech, and only 3.5 million Sarah Palin-approved Real Americans did. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/211 "2015-01-22T03:11:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Um, the success of a speech is in large part a function of how many people are listening. And guess who was and wasn’t listening? > > His own supporters are still as disconnected and unmotivated as ever. His audience, like the midterm electorate, leaned conservative. There are a lot more channels than cable news that play the state of the union address. I watched on ABC for instance. Do you really think ‘cable news watchers’ is a representative group to make claims about America as a whole? Remember, according to many conservatives, every channel other than Fox is left-leaning and liberal. The “lamestream” media, you may recall it being called by a prominent Republican candidate. So don’t you have to count the viewers on every channel other than Fox as Obama’s audience? How much does that tilt the “lean” to the left? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/212 "2015-01-22T03:13:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Until the Democrats bravely make that case and actually persuade voters of that fact, it will continue to be everything. So then the 2012 election proved that Americans support Obama’s recovery policies, no matter what you argue. Because the economy is “everything.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/213 "2015-01-22T03:29:07Z")
However, Obama’s policy does not explicitly include “Leave most fossil fuels in the ground”. As a matter of fact, he’s lauding the increase in oil production. Which, while helpful to him, is not very helpful if you want to get Americans to prioritize climate change over the economy. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/214 "2015-01-22T03:35:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s not just Obama who is on a winning streak: my prediction that this SOTU would be the lowest rated yet was corrrect: > > [http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/230323-tv-ratings-for-speech-lowest-of-obamas-presidency](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/230323-tv-ratings-for-speech-lowest-of-obamas-presidency) > > So what happens if the President is supposedly on a winning streak but no one is paying attention to him anymore? From the article. > [@](#): > > **As technology advances and TV loses some of its central role** , the White House has been adapting.\*\* It released the entire text of the speech online before Obama began the address\*\*, a break with tradition. The White House website had a livestream with added details about the president’s proposals. And the rollout for the proposals began in the week before the speech occurred. > > “While traditional television viewership has declined, the impact and importance of the State of the Union address has grown,” senior adviser Dan Pfeiffer said in a blog post on Wednesday. **“It’s changed from a live television event to a multimedia extravaganza. Millions of Americans will consume the address later via on-demand video and their social media feeds.”** ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/215 "2015-01-22T03:43:01Z")
That’s spin. It MIGHT be right, but they don’t know. I notice you didn’t demand a cite from them.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/216 "2015-01-22T04:01:23Z")
[Here’s the most important thing about this SOTU address, I think.](http://www.salon.com/2015/01/21/bye_bye_reagan_conservatism_why_obamas_speech_was_more_significant_than_it_seems/) > [@](#): > > But as much as the president’s address was characterized by a growing economy finally giving him a chance to say what he’d like to do with the fruits of his labor, the synoptic nature of the speech was also a consequence of Obama’s well-known preference for thinking about the “long game.” For the first time in more than six years, he had an opportunity to boast of changing the “trajectory” of the country like few presidents before him and none since Ronald Reagan. Crucially, he could do so while pointing to benefits that were tangible in the here and now, rather than being likely to occur in the indeterminate future, as has often been the case. He seized the opportunity, and made his case for what it would mean to be a citizen in the United States that Barack Obama helped make. > > It sounds, I know, remarkably ambitious — even hubristic. Still, it’s a goal Obama’s never been particularly hesitant to share, despite the fact that his moderate demeanor and often self-consciously centrist policies don’t fit our expectations for how a guy trying to “fundamentally transform” a superpower acts. But when Obama talks about the long game, worrying less about whether a policy is a half loaf or a quarter loaf and looking instead at whether it pushes the political mainstream in his preferred direction is part of what he means. As an example, here’s how he put it in a press conference in 2010, defending his decision to agree to a temporary extension of George W. Bush’s high-income tax cuts: “Not everybody agrees with [liberals] … And so my job is to make sure that we have a North Star out there.” > > “My question is,” he continued, “does it make sense for me to tack a little bit this way, or tack a little bit that way, because I’m keeping my eye on the long term, and the long fight?” > > \ > > In the end, pushing the “supertanker” that is the U.S. government in a leftward direction, making sure its trajectory now bends away from a reflexive, Reaganite distrust and antipathy for the welfare state, has always been President Obama’s No. 1 goal. It’s what informed most of his most consequential decisions, from accepting a profoundly flawed and unsatisfying healthcare reform, to watered-down Wall Street reform, to self-defeating short-term austerity, and so on. On Tuesday night, for one of the very first times, he was able to tell the American people that following a new North Star had taken them to friendlier waters. Through that lens, however Hillary Clinton decides to run her likely presidential campaign is but a minor part of the equation. Put that way . . . Wow. Just, wow. Critiquing Obama from a decent LW perspective, I have often found him wanting. Why didn’t he demand a “public option” in the ACA?! Why didn’t he prosecute the Wall Street malefactors?! Why the indefinite detentions and drone-strikes?! But this explains a **lot.** Sometimes “the art of the possible” that is politics finds a truly great artist. I recall some pundits early in this Admin asking whether Obama was just flailing or “playing some seven-dimensional game of chess only he understands.” Well. There, above, is your seven-dimensional chess game, and Obama is **winning** it, which means **we the people** are winning it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/217 "2015-01-22T04:05:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s spin. It MIGHT be right, but they don’t know. I notice you didn’t demand a cite from them.🙂 That’s from the article _you_ posted to prove rating were down. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/218 "2015-01-22T04:59:05Z")
Which doesn’t make it any less spin. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/219 "2015-01-22T05:00:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Here’s the most important thing about this SOTU address, I think.](http://www.salon.com/2015/01/21/bye_bye_reagan_conservatism_why_obamas_speech_was_more_significant_than_it_seems/) > > Put that way . . . Wow. Just, wow. > > Critiquing Obama from a decent LW perspective, I have often found him wanting. Why didn’t he demand a “public option” in the ACA?! Why didn’t he prosecute the Wall Street malefactors?! Why the indefinite detentions and drone-strikes?! > > But this explains a **lot.** Sometimes “the art of the possible” that is politics finds a truly great artist. I recall some pundits early in this Admin asking whether Obama was just flailing or “playing some seven-dimensional game of chess only he understands.” Well. There, above, is your seven-dimensional chess game, and Obama is **winning** it, which means **we the people** are winning it. Hopeful progressives are mistaking his occasional bouts of brilliance at oratory with actual accomplishments. Obama has completely and utterly failed to move the country to the left. Basically, Obama is reprising his ambition that he stated before he was elected. He wanted to be a transformational President like Reagan. So six years later, he just declares victory. And he does that in front of a Republican Congress, which has two houses. We should know: they won both of them. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/220 "2015-01-22T05:15:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Which doesn’t make it any less spin. What spin? It’s not spin to point out facts. If people are not watching on TV because of streaming on the web or reading online(which is what I did), then that’s a factor in reduced TV ratings. [From here.](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-sotu-watchers-used-facebook/) > [@](#): > > Over 2.6 million Tweets were fired off across the globe surrounding the State of the Union (And the related hashtag #SOTU), from the start of the address through the GOP response, according to a posting on Twitter’s official blog. Facebook announced Wednesday “5.7 million people on Facebook made 13.8 million interactions (likes, posts, comments, shares) related to the President’s State of the Union address” on the day of the address. Also, how many of your political buddies watched the edited version the GOP put out? That would also take away from TV numbers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330.md?page=12)