# Obama Feints To the Left **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330 "2015-01-20T00:28:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/141 "2015-01-21T19:11:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Probably because the deficit has actually [dropped significantly](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jan/20/barack-obama/barack-obama-claims-deficit-has-decreased-two-thir/) under Obama. No other President has ever had a deficit as high as it is now. Your own cite says so - > [@](#): > > First, it’s important to note that the deficit swelled in 2009 (hence the steady drop). In 2008, the deficit was $458 billion, or 3.1 percent of GDP. Those deficits are smaller than the ones the country is facing today. The 2009 fiscal year represented a huge jump in the deficit, partly because of the massive stimulus program to jumpstart the cratering economy. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/142 "2015-01-21T19:15:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No other President has ever had a deficit as high as it is now. Your own cite says so - > Regards, > Shodan Nearly all of the 2009 deficit was due to Bush’s policies (and Bush was in office for the first quarter of the fiscal year). This statement would apply to whoever would have won the 2008 election, because most of that deficit was already going to happen no matter what before inauguration. So Obama can truthfully say that under his leadership the deficit has dropped by about 2/3rds, from a high brought about almost entirely by Bush’s policies. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/143 "2015-01-21T19:16:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Anything else on that long list? This question is a trap, and I won’t fall for it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/144 "2015-01-21T19:17:53Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > There \*was \*a class war; the rich won it years ago. Or haven’t you noticed that the rich keep getting richer and more powerful, and the poor keep getting poorer and less represented? > > Could you tell us exactly how long Democrats had a supermajority? Also, how many filibusters have we seen since Obama took office? I didn’t say Obama never ACHIEVED any progressive goals, that was rendered almost impossible by the presence of Blue Dog democrats like Ben Nelson in his Senate majority. I’m saying he never TRIED, with the possible exception of health care. On most proposals, Obama bragged that he STARTED negotiations by giving Republicans 90 percent of what they asked for. That’s not trying. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/145 "2015-01-21T19:22:31Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > If we the people, in Congress assembled, want to do those things, he shouldn’t obstruct us. If they don’t have the votes to override a veto, the law stays. > [@](#): > > By taxing other people. How about spending cuts, instead? We’ve already cut the fat and are working on bone and muscle. It isn’t unreasonable to continually accelerate the flow of wealth to the wealthy. > [@](#): > > There already is such a law. It’s called the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938. None of its provisions allow discrimination based on sex. Funny how that discrimination still happened. the 1938 law obviously wasn’t strong enough. One would think that it would be a bipartisan favorite. > [@](#): > > Ain’t nothing free in this world. Besides, the students (and their children and grandchildren) will have to pay for it through higher taxes in the future. Saint Ronald of Reagan said there is a free lunch and we’re going to eat it. The program is paid for by undoing some of the needless tax breaks we give the elite. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/146 "2015-01-21T19:24:52Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Each of these possibilities is very easily tested. > > Let’s take Arkansas, for example. The minimum wage hike garnered 549,000 yes votes and 284,000 no votes. Call it 833,000 people voted on that initiative. > > In the Senate race, centrist Mark Pryor got 334,000 votes, and Republican Tom Cotton got 479,000. A libertarian candidate and a green candidate each got 17,000 votes. As Steve MG pointed out in post #54, many more voters voted for the minimum wage hike than for Mark Pryor, which points to the correctness of my theory. Voters are more progressive than Democratic Washington leaders. This spells bad news for centrist Democrats in 2016. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/147 "2015-01-21T19:28:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Nearly all of the 2009 deficit was due to Bush’s policies (and Bush was in office for the first quarter of the fiscal year). If you don’t believe your own cite, why did you post it? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/148 "2015-01-21T19:52:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If they don’t have the votes to override a veto, the law stays. I am fully aware of the political reality of the vote count. I still think that if one can call a Republican Congress “obstructionist” for not bowing to the will of the President, then it’s equally fair to say that the President, if he carries through with the veto threats, is obstructing the will of the people. Elections have consequences, remember? > [@](#): > > We’ve already cut the fat and are working on bone and muscle. Really? There’s nothing else that can legitimately be cut from the federal budget? I disagree. > [@](#): > > Funny how that discrimination still happened. the 1938 law obviously wasn’t strong enough. Take for example, the minimum wage. It applies equally to both male and female workers. Enforce the laws that exist. We don’t need another feel-good law to restate the obvious. > [@](#): > > The program is paid for by undoing some of the needless tax breaks we give the elite. One can argue about the specifics of a particular tax break, but labeling them “needless tax breaks for the elite” is ridiculous. Non-elite people enjoy the same tax breaks. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/149 "2015-01-21T19:59:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you don’t believe your own cite, why did you post it? > > Regards, > Shodan My own cite supports my statement. You can play semantic games and pretend this is about something besides which President is to blame for which deficits, but that’s what it’s about – Bush is “to blame” for the 2009 deficit (as far as any President can be blamed), and Obama is “to blame” for the subsequent deficits. He’ll be “to blame” for the 2017 deficit (assuming it exists). ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/150 "2015-01-21T20:21:29Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Really? There’s nothing else that can legitimately be cut from the federal budget? I disagree. Ok then make a suggestion. Republicans are good for demanding generic spending cuts, but when you ask them to propose specific cuts they have nothing. They don’t want to pay the political price for actually cutting any programs. So please, be specific. If you are certain about this, then give us a list of things you want cut, and how much money each will save on the budget. Put up something specific, otherwise the mindless chants of cut, cut, cut, will be given exactly the attention it deserves. None. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/151 "2015-01-21T20:32:14Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > One can argue about the specifics of a particular tax break, but labeling them “needless tax breaks for the elite” is ridiculous. Non-elite people enjoy the same tax breaks. The law, in its infinite majesty, forbids the rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/152 "2015-01-21T20:39:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Anything else on that long list? > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > This question is a trap, and I won’t fall for it. How it is a “trap” to ask which of Obama’s proposals you agree with? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/153 "2015-01-21T20:40:07Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > If we the people, in Congress assembled, want to do those things, he shouldn’t obstruct us. [shrug] A president gets to claim an electoral mandate of the whole people, independent of Congress’ mandate, for his whole term. That’s the presidential system for ya – if you don’t like it, go parliamentary. In any case, no POTUS is obliged, constitutionally or otherwise, to change course in response to midterm results. You know that, man – W was in these same shoes in 2007. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/154 "2015-01-21T20:41:30Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Ain’t nothing free in this world. Life is **mostly** free lunches, actually. Did you make the world you were born into? Did you build your mother’s womb? Or the school where you learned to read? Or the rich cultural and scientific heritage they tried to teach you there? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/155 "2015-01-21T20:44:04Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Seriously, where do you get this idea from? Certainly not the Constitution. Erm, from the dictionary? > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The three branches are supposed to be co-equal. Why should Congress be beholden to any President’s agenda? Congress constitutionally **gets** to obstruct the president (and vice-versa). That does not mean it is not obstruction. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/156 "2015-01-21T20:45:38Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > By taxing other people. How about spending cuts, instead? Historically, those usually turn out to be a Very Bad Idea. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/157 "2015-01-21T20:48:51Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > As Steve MG pointed out in post #54, many more voters voted for the minimum wage hike than for Mark Pryor, which points to the correctness of my theory. Voters are more progressive than Democratic Washington leaders. This spells bad news for centrist Democrats in 2016. If there are roughly 200,000 “progressives” who voted for the minimum wage increase, but not Mark Pryor, for which candidate did those 200,000 voters cast their ballot? Are you contending that **200,000 progressives** voted for Tea Party-endorsed candidate Tom Cotton? If so, your theory is laughable. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/158 "2015-01-21T20:50:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If there are roughly 200,000 “progressives” who voted for the minimum wage increase, but not Mark Pryor, for which candidate did those 200,000 voters cast their ballot? Possibly none; one can always leave a given ballot-line blank. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/159 "2015-01-21T20:52:38Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > This question is a trap, and I won’t fall for it. Oh my fucking ghod. _Really?_ ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/160 "2015-01-21T20:53:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Possibly none; one can always leave a given ballot-line blank. If you read my previous posts, I show that just as many votes were counted in the Senate race as they were in the ballot initiative. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330.md?page=9)