# Obama Feints To the Left **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330 "2015-01-20T00:28:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/161 "2015-01-21T21:00:45Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Ok then make a suggestion. Republicans are good for demanding generic spending cuts, but when you ask them to propose specific cuts they have nothing. They don’t want to pay the political price for actually cutting any programs. So please, be specific. If you are certain about this, then give us a list of things you want cut, and how much money each will save on the budget. > > Put up something specific, otherwise the mindless chants of cut, cut, cut, will be given exactly the attention it deserves. None. Funding for the IRS to implement the mandates under the ACA. Funding for the DHS to implement the President’s executive orders on immigration. The entire Department of Education. Why did education become a federal issue, in the first place? Long story short. Congress has the power of the purse, and they should use it more responsibly. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/162 "2015-01-21T21:01:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Erm, from the dictionary? > > Congress constitutionally **gets** to obstruct the president (and vice-versa). That does not mean it is not obstruction. But it’s only bad when the Republicans do it, correct? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/163 "2015-01-21T21:02:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, I do see - the stimulus package that was proposed and pushed thru by Obama was Bush’s fault, adding to the deficit by spending the TARP repayments was Bush’s fault, increasing the national debt by more than every other President in history was Bush’s fault, renewing the Bush tax cuts is Bush’s fault, and breaking all 112 of the promises documented above is Bush’s fault as well. > > 'Twas ever thus - anytime the lefties aren’t complaining that Obama can’t do anything because of the eeeevil GOP, they are complaining that what Obama did do wasn’t his fault. > > Regards, > Shodan No, I don’t do the silly games you do. Some of the deficits are readily attributable to Obama’s policies, others are fallout from a recession that shouldn’t be laid at the feet of any President, and other parts of the deficit are attributable to Bush policies. Just because you see the world in black and white colors and have no interest in fairly assessing matters, due to an obsession with blaming Democrats for everything, doesn’t mean that I blame Bush for everything. I often wonder if people on Internet message boards carry out their personal affairs with the same rigid and childish thinking that many display in forums like this. If your boss calls a meeting to discuss declining third quarter sales, do these purveyors of puerile political pablum jump in to say, “IT’S ALL JOHNSON’S FAULT! My sector doesn’t deserve any blame – it’s all that other guy!!!” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/164 "2015-01-21T21:03:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Oh my fucking ghod. > _Really?_ Really. What would you say if I disagreed with everything else on the agenda? Be honest, please. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/165 "2015-01-21T21:07:23Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Really. What would you say if I disagreed with everything else on the agenda? Be honest, please. A fair response would be to ask you why, as to each point. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/166 "2015-01-21T21:07:56Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Really. What would you say if I disagreed with everything else on the agenda? Be honest, please. I would say that it would show that you are objecting to pretty much the entire agenda because you oppose pretty much the entire agenda, and not merely because it is this President that proposed those items in it. Do you actually oppose everything else on the agenda? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/167 "2015-01-21T21:09:05Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > But it’s only bad when the Republicans do it, correct? 🙂 Well, yes, of course it’s only bad when the Republicans do it – but only because Republican policies are bad for the country, not because only Pubs are overstepping a constitutional line by obstructing. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/168 "2015-01-21T21:15:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I would say that it would show that you are objecting to pretty much the entire agenda because you oppose pretty much the entire agenda, and not merely because it is this President that proposed those items in it. > Do you actually oppose everything else on the agenda? Fair enough. Yes, I actually oppose nearly everything on the agenda. Take for example: > [@](#): > > Asks for “trade promotion authority.” I support free trade, but I don’t support giving this or a future President the authority to “fast-track” it on his own. Oh, I’m against identity theft as well, but that doesn’t mean I think that a new federal law will help anything. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/169 "2015-01-21T21:18:24Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Fair enough. Yes, I actually oppose nearly everything on the agenda. Take for example: > I support free trade, but I don’t support giving this or a future President the authority to “fast-track” it on his own. > > Oh, I’m against identity theft as well, but that doesn’t mean I think that a new federal law will help anything. What about “Calls for a “bipartisan infrastructure plan” to upgrade America’s ports, bridges, etc.”? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/170 "2015-01-21T21:20:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, yes, of course it’s only bad when the Republicans do it – but only because Republican policies are bad for the country. You slay me. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/171 "2015-01-21T21:21:01Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Funding for the IRS to implement the mandates under the ACA. > > Funding for the DHS to implement the President’s executive orders on immigration. > > The entire Department of Education. Why did education become a federal issue, in the first place? > > Long story short. Congress has the power of the purse, and they should use it more responsibly. How much will this save? Any idea? I’d think someone so concerned about the fiscal situation in the country would have some idea about what they are actually going to be saving if their dream cuts came to fruition, right? Do you have the numbers or are you just crossing your fingers and wishing that this will solve the problem you’re so anxious about? So your big ideas to balance the budget are to continue fighting against the ACA, and Obama’s immigration actions? Well that’s certainly telling, whether it would do any actual fiscal good or not. As for the Department of Education, it became a federal issue when we decided as a nation that every child born into this country deserves access to a quality free education. Without federal oversight of some fashion, how would this promise possibly be kept? Just trust Alabama to get it right? Hardly. Also, I’d be more willing to discuss scaling back our education infrastructure when the US stops trailing every other western democracy in educational results. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/172 "2015-01-21T21:21:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What about “Calls for a “bipartisan infrastructure plan” to upgrade America’s ports, bridges, etc.”? Two reasons. Our infrastructure isn’t as bad as the media would have us believe, and I don’t think we can afford it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/173 "2015-01-21T21:21:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > My own cite supports my statement. No. This is factually incorrect. > [@](#): > > You can play semantic games and pretend this is about something besides which President is to blame for which deficits, but that’s what it’s about – Bush is “to blame” for the 2009 deficit… Again, clearly and demonstrably false. Your own cite says the opposite of this. Stonewalling and denial have a well-known liberal bias. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/174 "2015-01-21T21:25:54Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Two reasons. Our infrastructure isn’t as bad as the media would have us believe, and I don’t think we can afford it. Ahem - [1 in 10 Bridges in America in urgent need of repair](http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/24/us-usa-infrastructure-bridges-idUSBREA3N1FQ20140424) That’s 63,000 bridges across the US, most of them part of the interstate highway system. Are you comfortable with driving across these bridges? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/175 "2015-01-21T21:40:39Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > How much will this save? Any idea? Eliminating the ED would save $70 billion, plus an additional $19 billion in ARRA spending on education. > [@](#): > > As for the Department of Education, it became a federal issue when we decided as a nation that every child born into this country deserves access to a quality free education. Without federal oversight of some fashion, how would this promise possibly be kept? Just trust Alabama to get it right? Hardly. Also, I’d be more willing to discuss scaling back our education infrastructure when the US stops trailing every other western democracy in educational results. Every state already offers “free” childhood education. I didn’t see the Amendment that repealed that pesky 10th Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/176 "2015-01-21T21:43:44Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Ahem - [1 in 10 Bridges in America in urgent need of repair](http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/24/us-usa-infrastructure-bridges-idUSBREA3N1FQ20140424) > > That’s 63,000 bridges across the US, most of them part of the interstate highway system. Are you comfortable with driving across these bridges? As always, there are [two sides](http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/376587/americas-infrastructure-isnt-crumbling-patrick-brennan) to every story. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/177 "2015-01-21T21:56:10Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Funding for the IRS to implement the mandates under the ACA. > > Funding for the DHS to implement the President’s executive orders on immigration. > > The entire Department of Education. Why did education become a federal issue, in the first place? > > Long story short. Congress has the power of the purse, and they should use it more responsibly. IRS- trivial. The ACA doesn’t require that much more work on the part of the IRS. Since Republicans have been trying to starve it, the IRS has missed out on chances to gain a lot of money for the treasury by auditing more people. Cutting $5 million in agents and thus forgo $20 million in lost taxes (made up numbers) is silly. If the president proposes deporting fewer people one would think it would be a net savings for the agency. Unless you think having agents round up people, take them to court, and deport them is cheaper than having them apply for permission to stay. If Education was eliminated, all of the things that it does would be done by the states. Where is the savings? Who would administer federal student loans? If one takes the position that as long as there is one dollar of fat in the budget then one cannot consider any revenue increases then I say that position is foolish. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/178 "2015-01-21T21:56:52Z")
On the tax proposed increases I am a cynic. This deserves close inspection. I’m betting his definition of the rich will start at about 50,000 per year and run up to about 2,500,000 per year or so. After that they will close the existing loopholes while at the same time create other loop holes so those above that range stay at just where they are. After all no politician, progressive or conservative, is going to promote tax increases that will hinder their campaign contributions. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/179 "2015-01-21T22:08:26Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > As always, there are [two sides](http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/376587/americas-infrastructure-isnt-crumbling-patrick-brennan) to every story. Surprise surprise, conservatives have thought up a way to justify not spending money. Just because there are two sides to every story doesn’t mean both sides are right. If your family was killed on one of those bridges would you think “well at least we saved some money!”? Doubtful. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330/180 "2015-01-21T22:10:26Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Eliminating the ED would save $70 billion, plus an additional $19 billion in ARRA spending on education. > > Every state already offers “free” childhood education. I didn’t see the Amendment that repealed that pesky 10th Amendment. And the rest of my post? Just gonna pretend that doesn’t exist? You listed three things that you claimed would help with the country’s fiscal situation. You are now only defending one of them. Is that your final answer on what to cut out of the budge then? Just the department of education? That’s your big fix? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-feints-to-the-left/710330.md?page=10)