# Obama freezes federal worker pay for 2 years **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 29, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301 "2010-11-29T17:43:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/21 "2010-11-29T18:40:45Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > I’m willing to bet that the majority of federal employees would rather have the agencies’ spending cut before cutting their own salaries. Their salaries are not being cut. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/22 "2010-11-29T18:41:15Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > Eliminating the entire Federal Dept of Education, for example, would save $80 billion per year and nobody other than the employees and their families would ever notice. Yep, because Pell Grants don’t actually exist. All that $80 billion is just for salaries of people who do nothing all day. Nope, no college student would even notice that they were not getting thousands of dollars of tuition assistance. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/23 "2010-11-29T18:41:22Z")
I’m afraid I’m getting more and more jaded nearly every day. But what are folk suggesting when they speak of negotiating with Repubs? Is there any reason to believe that Repubs are interested in any true negotiation on any significant issue? Unfortunately, I see this as little more than grandstanding - which is consistent with most of what I see from both parties these days. At least it does not seem blatantly aimed at enriching one particular demographic as seems so common in proposals from the right. Will be interesting is to see how eager the Repubs from Va and Md are to support this. In the past, they have assuaged their voters by tying civilian pay to military. And while we are at it - why exempt the military? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/24 "2010-11-29T18:42:11Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > **Shrinking the size of government** would be better political cover than stiffing the government employees. In that case, wouldn’t you just wind up firing a ton of people? Looking at this from the standpoint of government employees, it seems like the pay freeze would be preferable. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/25 "2010-11-29T18:43:08Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > I think you are mistaken. Cutting spending for an agency would be seen as meeting Republicans halfway. Shrinking the size of government would be better political cover than stiffing the government employees. If we’re going to cut an agency, we need to get rid of Homeland Security. Talk about a waste of fucking money. It would also help to get out of Afghanistan and end this phoney “war on terror,” which was never anything but politcal theater anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/26 "2010-11-29T18:45:33Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > Eliminating the entire Federal Dept of Education, for example, would save $80 billion per year and nobody other than the employees and their families would ever notice. You have to be fucking joking. $80 billion is nothing, and you’re talking about one of the most valuable departments we have. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/27 "2010-11-29T18:46:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If we’re going to cut an agency, we need to get rid of Homeland Security. Talk about a waste of fucking money. It would also help to get out of Afghanistan and end this phoney “war on terror,” which was never anything but politcal theater anyway. Above you said spending cuts wouldn’t do shit, and now you are proposing eliminating spending on Afghanistan and the war on terror. Which statement was true? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/28 "2010-11-29T18:48:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Their salaries are not being cut. You are correct. I stated that incorrectly. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/29 "2010-11-29T18:49:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Do you actually have an opinion on the freeze? > > By the way, the answer to your questions is that it won’t bother federal workers very much Speak for yourself, as a federal worker I’m pretty pissed, but given the political climate I do understand it. People hate the government unless they want something from it, and if they don’t get what they want then they blame the federal workers. It’s also not clear what exactly he is referring to. There are two sorts of raises that we get. One is an annual cost of living increase, the other is a “step-increase” which is sort of a mini-promotion for increased experience. If he just cancels the first one I won’t be too upset, but if both are canceled I’ll be pretty pissed. Also there is the fact that since raises are percentage based, freezing for a couple of years could actually represent a pay cut for the entire career of the employee. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/30 "2010-11-29T18:51:20Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > In that case, wouldn’t you just wind up firing a ton of people? Looking at this from the standpoint of government employees, it seems like the pay freeze would be preferable. Yes, you would end up firing a lot of people. The question is which one of these two possibilities would be less damaging overall? Obviously the federal employees fired will be pissed. I wonder if eliminating the COLA (deserved or not) would piss off more people. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/31 "2010-11-29T18:52:50Z")
It’s a terrible idea simply because every agency of government right now should be encouraging economic growth. Reducing compensation of federal workers (which is what a spending freeze is in true dollars) means they’ll have less to spend on cars, toys for their kids, food, Cheetos, whatever. Which means the companies that make those things will be selling fewer of them, and so they’ll need to hire fewer workers, and therefore those who would otherwise be working and spending and generating economic activity won’t be, ad infinitum. Growth may not be the solution to all our economic problems, but it sure as hell makes a big difference. Because this year’s economic growth is on the basis of last year’s, and next year’s is on the basis of this year’s, even a small increase in growth will be compounded and compounded in the future. That said, the change won’t make too much of a difference to most federal workers – the civilian federal workforce has, in general, a collapsed pay structure. People at the lower end of the scale make somewhat better wages than others of their education and training. People at the highest end of the scale make 10-20% of what they could make in the private sector. And given that the work is more stable than private-sector jobs, these folks mostly lead moderately comfortable, non-flashy lives compared to those of their private sector peers. Also, since the Fed is absurdly (I think counterproductively) concerned with keeping inflation at historically low levels, the actual reduction in compensation will be small. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/32 "2010-11-29T18:53:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And how do you think you cut spending for an agency? Ultimately, all money goes to paying _someone_’s salary. Do you really think that all government spending goes to salaries? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/33 "2010-11-29T18:54:47Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Shrinking the size of government would be better political cover than stiffing the government employees. > [@joebuck20](#): > > In that case, wouldn’t you just wind up firing a ton of people? Many of whom would then go on to collect unemployment assistance from the government. I don’t see that helping a whole lot, you don’t really want the government putting people out of work when unemployment is already so high. The reality is that a serious proposal to cut the deficit (as opposed to just gutting the government, which isn’t going to happen) has to include letting the Bush tax cuts expire to raise more revenue - and yet the people who say they are the most determined to cut the deficit won’t hear of it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/34 "2010-11-29T19:03:04Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > Eliminating the entire Federal Dept of Education, for example, would save $80 billion per year and nobody other than the employees and their families would ever notice. I’m starting to worry that you’re a bot. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/35 "2010-11-29T19:05:40Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Above you said spending cuts wouldn’t do shit, and now you are proposing eliminating spending on Afghanistan and the war on terror. > > Which statement was true? They are both true, and non-contradictory. The kind of “spending” cuts conservatives always bitch about is anything that actually helps other human beings. That’s the kind of spending cut that doesn’t do shit. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/36 "2010-11-29T19:08:59Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Yes, you would end up firing a lot of people. The question is which one of these two possibilities would be less damaging overall? Getting fired is more damaging than not getting a raise, and regardless of how federal emplyees feel about (and they won’t be as pissed as you’re hoping they will be), the Republicans would like to do even worse, so this is not going to be any kind of political win for righties. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/37 "2010-11-29T19:11:46Z")
It’s part of the necessary process towards a more sustainable budget, assuming it is just about the COLA, not the tenure increases. And it’s likely the most electorally viable approach at this time (since apparently a zero COLA for SS payments is a no-go…). Politically, it’s more of the same. Give in to GOP demands and then get kicked in the teeth when you ask for something (see: removing public option from health-care reform). This will most likely give him zero votes when it comes to decoupling the upper-class and middle-class tax cuts. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/38 "2010-11-29T19:13:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Many of whom would then go on to collect unemployment assistance from the government. I don’t see that helping a whole lot, you don’t really want the government putting people out of work when unemployment is already so high. The reality is that a serious proposal to cut the deficit (as opposed to just gutting the government, which isn’t going to happen) has to include letting the Bush tax cuts expire to raise more revenue - and yet the people who say they are the most determined to cut the deficit won’t hear of it. Nothing in the government happens quickly. By the time federal jobs are eliminated we will probably have gone through another boom-bust cycle. I don’t think anyone is suggesting firing federal employees in the middle of a recession. That being said, people on unemployment benefits will eventually be off of them. Also, the federal government does not have to pay for their retirement or their health care. Let’s not pretend that reducing the federal workload will not result in savings over time. Letting the tax cuts expire will do little or nothing to increase revenue. Regardless of the tax rates the federal receips are always around 19% of GDP. Tax increases will just create a drag for the recovering economy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/39 "2010-11-29T19:16:44Z")
It’s actually the tax _cuts_ that are dragging the recovery, since they are unfunded. It’s just throwing money away to those who need it least. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301/40 "2010-11-29T19:18:45Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Nothing in the government happens quickly. By the time federal jobs are eliminated we will probably have gone through another boom-bust cycle. I don’t think anyone is suggesting firing federal employees in the middle of a recession. So you were proposing that Obama eliminate some government jobs several years from now? I didn’t get that from your post. > [@](#): > > That being said, people on unemployment benefits will eventually be off of them. Obviously. I’m just pointing out that this does not translate to instant savings. > [@](#): > > Letting the tax cuts expire will do little or nothing to increase revenue. How on earth is that possible? > [@](#): > > Tax increases will just create a drag for the recovering economy. What have those tax cuts done for the economy over the last decade? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-freezes-federal-worker-pay-for-2-years/562301.md?page=3)