# Obama gets elected, but Romney beats him in the popular vote - what happens? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 12, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551 "2012-10-12T19:41:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elbowj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9adbd/32.png) [@elbowj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbowj)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/21 "2012-10-12T22:59:47Z")
They’ve already said they’d look to dispute an electoral college win. Greg Mueller, the president of the conservative CRC Public Relations, said he does not expect the election to be as close as current polls indicate but added that his side would be particularly tenacious in fighting any legal battle challenging a narrow Obama victory. “You’ve got a Republican/independent Romney base, in my view, that politically speaking and policy speaking fears Barack Obama and where he’s taken the country,” Mueller said. “So if you have this come down to the court system, I think it’ll be even messier than Bush and Gore, who weren’t really seen as far lefties and far righties, whereas our side sees Barack Obama as an extreme left-wing socialist.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/22 "2012-10-12T23:20:47Z")
When I read rhetoric like that, I wonder what planet people are on that Obama is an “extreme left-wing socialist.” Anyhow, I really doubt anything would happen. If Romney wins the popular vote, and Obama wins the Electoral College, what’s there to dispute? Obama wins. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/23 "2012-10-12T23:25:40Z")
Yeah, is that guy like 20 years old? _Every_ Democratic candidate has been called the Most Liberal Ever. Even Bill Clinton, who signed welfare reform (granted partly by duress, but The Most Liberal President Ever is _not_ going to try to co opt instituting of limits on the receipt of welfare.) ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/24 "2012-10-13T00:59:28Z")
Not a Republican, but a conservative … _shrug_ Nothing would happen. We have the Electoral College to protect us from mob rule. Romney wins the popular, Obama wins the EC – so what? Such is life. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/25 "2012-10-13T01:37:14Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > Not a Republican, but a conservative … _shrug_ Nothing would happen. We have the Electoral College to protect us from mob rule. Romney wins the popular, Obama wins the EC – so what? Such is life. I agree. I can’t stand the **O** ne **B** ig\*\* A\*\*ss **M** istake **A** merica made in '08 nor it’s positions/beliefs/policies, but it is the President of United States of America. And if in 2012 it only wins the 11 states required for an electoral victory, it will STILL be POTUS and rightfully so. The electoral college is genius in what it is and why it is. Unless there is some weird shenanigans like the Dems tried to pull in 2000 there will be no question that their candidate will be President and I will oppose any attempt to dilute that. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/26 "2012-10-13T02:23:39Z")
It? How charming. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/27 "2012-10-13T02:25:54Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It? How charming. NVM QbY= 7.2613/5 ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/28 "2012-10-13T02:30:45Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > **O** ne **B** ig\*\* A\*\*ss **M** istake **A** merica made That’s a new one. Seems like a lot more effort to type out than 0bama, though. And it lacks the bite factor of Oba-Mao. And profanity filters are never fun. 3/10, would not put on back of car. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/29 "2012-10-13T07:30:51Z")
DIsputing the electoral vote would be a non-starter. the rules are the rules. there are 50 individual state elections and whoever wins the most electors from those states wins the election. Personally, I’m comfortable with that and wouldn’t want it changed even if Romney won by a lot in the popular vote and lost the electoral vote. Here’s how I would change the system though: encourage more states to award delegates proportionally or by congressional district, like Nebraska and Maine do. In order to avoid advantaging one party over the other, states of similar size would have to make compacts to do it together. So say, Texas and New York could agree to award their EVs by congressional district. My main concern is to prevent federal control over the elections process. Our system is built to protect us from Hugo Chavez-types and having state and local control over elections is a powerful tool for preventing widespread election fraud by a ruling party. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/30 "2012-10-13T14:27:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > My main concern is to prevent federal control over the elections process. Our system is built to protect us from Hugo Chavez-types and having state and local control over elections is a powerful tool for preventing widespread election fraud by a ruling party. Widespread election fraud? The Carter Center found no evidence of election fraud in the [2012 Venezuelan elections](http://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/venezuela-100512.html) and [three other international organisations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2006#International_observers) came to the same conclusion about the 2006 ones. Care to back this one up? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/31 "2012-10-13T14:32:26Z")
I wasn’t intending to get into a debate about election fraud by Hugo Chavez so much as making the point that federal control of an elections process is necessary to rig a vote reliably. As for how Chavez rigged the election: Chávez used unlimited state resources to explicitly engage in his re-election campaign. For example, state television stations broadcast pro-Chávez propaganda, and government buildings display as much too. Capriles was limited to media appearances of three minutes per day, while Chávez appeared for hours at a time on all television stations as required by law. The voter registry included irregularities or was at least questionable. From 2003 to 2012 the number of voters registered increased from about 12 million to almost 19 million even though the population grew by only a few million during that time. 14 of 24 states in Venezuela have more registered voters than those eligible to vote. There are thousands of registered voters between the ages of 111 and 129. Voting ballots were printed in such a way that many people who thought they were voting for Capriles had their votes counted as being cast for a third candidate. Government spending increased by 30% over the past year; 8 million people are directly dependent in some way on government for their income or to receive handouts. Chávez closed the consulate in Miami, home to thousands of likely Capriles supporters, forcing them to vote at the consulate in New Orleans or become disenfranchised. The government intimidated voters, including government employees, by insinuating that their votes will not be secret. [http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/did-chavez-win-the-elections-is-venezuela-a-democracy/](http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/did-chavez-win-the-elections-is-venezuela-a-democracy/) ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/32 "2012-10-13T15:10:30Z")
pkbites, thank you for reminding me of my favorite thing about the internet; the lack of spittle. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/33 "2012-10-13T15:20:51Z")
So, wait, you’re saying that Chicago politics is clean after all, because it’s all local? ---
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/34 "2012-10-13T15:31:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > DIsputing the electoral vote would be a non-starter. the rules are the rules. there are 50 individual state elections and whoever wins the most electors from those states wins the election. Personally, I’m comfortable with that and wouldn’t want it changed even if Romney won by a lot in the popular vote and lost the electoral vote. > > Here’s how I would change the system though: encourage more states to award delegates proportionally or by congressional district, like Nebraska and Maine do. In order to avoid advantaging one party over the other, states of similar size would have to make compacts to do it together. So say, Texas and New York could agree to award their EVs by congressional district. > > My main concern is to prevent federal control over the elections process. Our system is built to protect us from Hugo Chavez-types and having state and local control over elections is a powerful tool for preventing widespread election fraud by a ruling party. These two statements contradict each other. You say you want the federal government to step in and dictate how states should allocate their delegates (in direct contradiction the the Constitution), yet, you don’t think the federal government should have any control over the process. It has to be one or the other, dude. I also have to say that I find your comparison to Chavez preposterous. “The federal government” is not a singular entity in the US. No one person or group controls it. No one person or group is in charge of it. When you say “federal control,” who are you talking about? The President? The President does not have those kinds of powers. Neither does Congress. The US simply does not have enough concentration of power in any single office or agency to be able to exercise dictatorial control of anything. If you want to worry about something, worry about the frankly racist voter suppression tactics being employed by certain states under the guise of “voter ID” laws. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/35 "2012-10-14T03:54:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, wait, you’re saying that Chicago politics is clean after all, because it’s all local? No, just that Chicago can only screw up Chicago, or at worst, all of Illinois. A chicago politician can’t run a national election like a Chicago election. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/36 "2012-10-14T04:01:24Z")
> [@Jesus of Nazareth](#): > > These two statements contradict each other. You say you want the federal government to step in and dictate how states should allocate their delegates (in direct contradiction the the Constitution), yet, you don’t think the federal government should have any control over the process. It has to be one or the other, dude. I mean state compacts, like the Popular Vote thingie many states are trying to do where the popular vote winner gets those states’ electoral votes. Texas and New York could agree to award their delegates proportionally. > [@](#): > > I also have to say that I find your comparison to Chavez preposterous. “The federal government” is not a singular entity in the US. No one person or group controls it. No one person or group is in charge of it. When you say “federal control,” who are you talking about? The President? The President does not have those kinds of powers. Neither does Congress. The US simply does not have enough concentration of power in any single office or agency to be able to exercise dictatorial control of anything. actually, if we switched to a national popular vote, by necessity the executive branch would have to run the elections. A national popular vote can’t work any other way because different states have different rules and different resources. That’s why it didn’t matter that Hillary Clinton won more votes than Barack Obama. Since the states had such vastly different methods of electing delegates, comparing the votes Obama won in Iowa with the votes Clinton won in New Hampshire wasn’t an apples to apples comparison. While Presidential elections don’t involve nearly as big differences from state to state, they do exist, which would require that an administration or Congress impose conformity so that a vote in North Dakota is the same as a vote in California. They’d need the same ballots, same eligibility rules, and roughly similar convenience to vote(I presume rural voters have to go further to get to their polling station). It would be very easy for a Congress to impose rules on the entire nation that benefit one party or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/37 "2012-10-14T07:07:25Z")
Republicans will be frothing at the mouth and, at least one segment of the party will want to push for the abolition of the Electoral College. Which is something I’ll agree with, since the Electoral College is an anachronism that has to go. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/38 "2012-10-14T07:20:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > About half of them say he’s not a legitimate president anyway. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/39 "2012-10-14T07:46:39Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Republicans will be frothing at the mouth and, at least one segment of the party will want to push for the abolition of the Electoral College. > > Which is something I’ll agree with, since the Electoral College is an anachronism that has to go. Fine, as long as a) the states still control the elections process, and b) no national recounts. 1st count is the only count. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551/40 "2012-10-14T08:18:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As for how Chavez rigged the election: > > Chávez used unlimited state resources to explicitly engage in his re-election campaign. For example, state television stations broadcast pro-Chávez propaganda, and government buildings display as much too. > > Capriles was limited to media appearances of three minutes per day, while Chávez appeared for hours at a time on all television stations as required by law. > [@Could Montana get the court to reconsider Citizens United?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-montana-get-the-court-to-reconsider-citizens-united/624699/431): > > One other thing I think needs to be addressed, the argument that because some people have greater ability to spread their message than others, that it should be restricted in the name of fairness. > > First, it’s not fair. There are many entities and individuals who can spread their message far and wide. If we limit the ability of some people who are capable of this while continuing to allow other people who are already doing it to continue to do so, then that is not fair, nor is it equal. Is Oprah Winfrey entitled to more privileges than the Kochs? Does Michael Moore have special rights that George Soros does not? Besides, the Carter centre concluded state owned television had a 5.4% market share. > [@](#): > > The voter registry included irregularities or was at least questionable. From 2003 to 2012 the number of voters registered increased from about 12 million to almost 19 million even though the population grew by only a few million during that time. 14 of 24 states in Venezuela have more registered voters than those eligible to vote. There are thousands of registered voters between the ages of 111 and 129. The Carter Centre concluded that 97% of the eligible voting population were on the rolls and there were equal numbers of opposition and supporting voters on the rolls. Voting ballots were printed in such a way that many people who thought they were voting for Capriles had their votes counted as being cast for a third candidate. Dead voters represented 0.3% of the rolls. MUD found that changes to the voter rolls were in line both with population growth and the high percentage of voters registered was in line with other Latin American countries. > [@](#): > > Government spending increased by 30% over the past year; 8 million people are directly dependent in some way on government for their income or to receive handouts. and the rich depend on the government not to redistribute wealth and to enforce contract law. > [@](#): > > Chávez closed the consulate in Miami, home to thousands of likely Capriles supporters, forcing them to vote at the consulate in New Orleans or become disenfranchised. [They’re not disenfranchised](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15312913&postcount=1838). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-gets-elected-but-romney-beats-him-in-the-popular-vote-what-happens/637551.md?page=3)