# Obama grabs shovel, starts slinging mud **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-grabs-shovel-starts-slinging-mud/466734 "2008-10-06T20:02:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-grabs-shovel-starts-slinging-mud/466734/161 "2008-10-08T00:39:58Z")
Cuntitude is frequently an intermittent state, like lycanthropy, it has lunar phase associations. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-grabs-shovel-starts-slinging-mud/466734/162 "2008-10-08T01:03:13Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Here’s something interesting. Even the Republican/conservative folks on this forum – while believing that bringing up the Keating 5 is “slinging mud” – have stated that this is a different tack for the Obama campaign, which has otherwise run a clean campaign. > > Apparently Cindy McCain disagrees. [In her opinion, Obama has “waged the dirtiest campaign in American history.”](http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081007/NEWS0206/81007055) > > So: Revealing some arguable facts/opinions about something that actually happened in McCain’s past, behavior that the congress called ‘poor judgment’ and that McCain himself regrets/labels a mistake = the dirtiest campaign in U.S. history. > > Claiming that Obama’s a terrorist’s “best friend” and continues to “pal around with terrorists”; ignoring slurs and violent threats against Obama; calling him anti-American and “dangerous”; and dismissing years of helping a community as having no responsibilities = noble, clean campaigning. > > I understand being protective of your husband. But this is utterly ridiculous. Was she in a drug stupor when Bush ran the swift boating campaign. Even by dirty politics that was a new level. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-grabs-shovel-starts-slinging-mud/466734/163 "2008-10-08T02:24:38Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Apparently Cindy McCain disagrees. [In her opinion, Obama has “waged the dirtiest campaign in American history.”](http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081007/NEWS0206/81007055) Oh my. Looks like Cindy has been rummaging through the medicine cabinet again. She has started calling her husband “Obama.” ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-grabs-shovel-starts-slinging-mud/466734/164 "2008-10-08T03:14:30Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [keatingeconomics.com](http://www.keatingeconomics.com/?source=sem-pm-google&gclid=CJuxyOnHlZYCFQVfFQodBCEiEA) Heres a little film by a reghulator involved in Keating. McCain was ass deep in dereg and fighting for the big guy at the expense of tax payers. That’s a better 13 minute documentary than it had to be. (I guess if it was as relentless as the typical 30 second spot, then nobody could sit through it.) It is narrated by a key regulator from the era, one of the men at the receiving end of John McCain and the Keating 5’s political pressure. He was not a happy camper. I find it interesting that the factual accuracy of the documentary has not been questioned. **Voyager** ’s analogy fits: “Obama standing over McCain: I’ve got here the truth, the most powerful political weapon in the world. Now, I don’t remember if I’ve used up all my money on ads or not. You feeling lucky, punk?” ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-grabs-shovel-starts-slinging-mud/466734/165 "2008-10-08T05:39:50Z")
> [@Orr\_G](#): > > Sure, the Obama campaign’s version of going negative is far more civilized and on-target than the Rovian politics we’ve seen from the other side, but it’s not the message I care about. > [@DianaG](#): > > I emphatically disagree. The “message” is “John McCain has, and presumably will, put his own financial interests and the interests of his friends above those of the American people”, and it’s an important message. It’s what got us into that mess, and it’s what got us into this mess, and the messes will keep coming if John McCain and his ilk remain in office. Yes yes yes. The message is the what you should be caring about. It’s important. Very important. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with candidate A telling us why candidate B isn’t qualified to be president as long as the reason is honest and relevant. I get why McCain supporters are whining about this, but why are Obama supporters? Obama is not playing dirty. He’s not getting sleazy. He’s done a lot of selling of his own qualifications up to this point. Now, after McCain announced to everyone he was going negative (as if he hasn’t been a sleazebag the whole time), Obama comes out punching. Thank the gods. Hit him hard. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-grabs-shovel-starts-slinging-mud/466734/166 "2008-10-08T07:39:51Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Was she in a drug stupor when Bush ran the swift boating campaign. Even by dirty politics that was a new level. Hell, how about Bush’s campaign against her husband back in 2000? I _really_ just want someone to say to her: “Maybe your memory’s not so hot, Cindy dear, but what kind of freak would find a Keating Five accusation nastier than [Karl Rove’s push poll that dragged yourr adopted daughter into the campaign with claims that the little girl was actually your husband’s ‘illegitimate black (horrors!) baby’?](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080128/banks)” ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-grabs-shovel-starts-slinging-mud/466734/167 "2008-10-08T15:20:33Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Apparently Cindy McCain disagrees. [In her opinion, Obama has “waged the dirtiest campaign in American history.”](http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081007/NEWS0206/81007055) Obviously she is unfamiliar with the election of 1828. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-grabs-shovel-starts-slinging-mud/466734/168 "2008-10-08T16:13:30Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Obviously she is unfamiliar with the election of 1828. Why, what did McCain do in that one? ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-grabs-shovel-starts-slinging-mud/466734/169 "2008-10-08T16:22:05Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Why, what did McCain do in that one? Probably accused John Quincy Adams of “Palling Around with Indians”. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-grabs-shovel-starts-slinging-mud/466734/170 "2008-10-08T16:23:22Z")
:snort: 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-grabs-shovel-starts-slinging-mud/466734/171 "2008-10-10T22:11:09Z")
> [@5-4-Fighting](#): > > P.S. Who else thinks Cindy’s comment that “Obama has waged the dirtiest campaign in American history” is a setup up for them to attack Michelle? Let’s just say, of all the cans of worms that McCain has opened lately, he doesn’t want to open that one. Excellent call. McCain campaign [attacks](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/mccain_campaign_goes_after_mic.php) Michelle Obama. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-grabs-shovel-starts-slinging-mud/466734.md?page=8)