# Obama has to dress down, he's busy cleaning up your puke! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642 "2009-02-05T23:51:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/181 "2009-02-07T01:48:41Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > This is a pretty fucked up opinion to pass off as a universal truth, **Scylla**. > > Anyone who thinks a black guy in a suit is threatening is the same kind of person who calls blacks folks “uppity” when they use proper subject-verb agreement. And “trying too hard”…really? Gee, maybe they’re “trying too hard” because they don’t want to mistaken for a threatening thug for _not_ wearing a suit. I’m starting to notice a pattern here. > > I’m tired of white men mistakening their attitudes for the rest of humanity’s. And it’s ridiculous when they don’t even care how small-dicked they sound while doing it. A black man in a suit is only threatening to someone who is majorly insecure with his masculine prowess…which is not something I’d think anyone would want to advertise. Oh go fuck yourself with that. Get the offensibility chip off your shoulder for chrissake. I don’t give a shit what color somebody is. I grew up in the Bronx and went to Montclair High school where I was a minority. This has nothing to do with race. I’m talking about how one’s dress and style plays off body type and complexion. If you don’t think having dark skin affects the way a person carries a dark formal suit than it’s not me that has the problem with prejudice, it’s you that has the problem with bad fashion sense. Monochrome anything is rarely a good look. In black it looks excessively formal and/or sinister. Black men tend to have black hair. Current fashion is close cut or bald, which also looks formal and/or sinister. It’s a little bit harder for a black men to soften that since he can’t tousle his hair and a bright tie creates a glaring contrast. whereas it’s a softer transition with a lighter complexioned man who eases the transition with lighter skin and hair color and styling and has more choices in shirt and tie color. A well-dressed black man should consider that he will typically look more formal than a white man in a similar outfit because of his complexion. Black people typically wear green better than white people. White people can look sickly or like it’s St. Patrick’s day. Black men look better than white men bald. Black men have trouble with transitions in formal business attire. Typically they can do upscale casual a lot better than white men. So. Please. Stop it. Seriously. The color of your skin and the shape of the body will make clothes look differently on you than somebody with a different shape and complexion. I seriously fucking resent the ignorant accusation you’ve made. You should be a bit more careful before throwing such shit around. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/182 "2009-02-07T01:51:58Z")
Re Colin Powell being locked out of that meeting: I was disappointed in Powell for not immediately giving two weeks notice. I was also disappointed that Bill Clinton, on the day he left office, didn’t beat the hell out of Ken Starr. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/183 "2009-02-07T01:55:11Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And the rest of the people in the room, not privvy to the discussion, would come away feeling: Cool, the big guy doesn’t get too cranked when we show up late. Do you think the cabinet is populated by high schoolers? :smack: -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/184 "2009-02-07T02:04:13Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I like being the one to break this to you. > > Not any more. Suit and tie lends an air of stodginess, inefficiency, and cluelessness. We don’t take suits seriously anymore. They are faintly ridiculous, in fact. > > -FrL- Nonsense. Or perhaps you could, like a couple of the other posters here have done, show me some photos to prove your point? I can’t think of a single time when I’ve seen meetings (summit-type meetings; not lunch) where world leaders were not all wearing suits…apart from Arab leaders, that is. Even leaders from impoverished third-world countries where hardly anyone wears suits always manage to show up in a very nice one. Suits are plentiful in the political and corporate world as well, and in the bars and restaurants and shops where such people congregate. In fact, just about anyplace where it’s important to create an impression of education and trustworthiness, you’ll see suits. > [@Frylock](#): > > Probably because they were afraid you were an asshole. :rolleyes: > [@Frylock](#): > > Do you think the cabinet is populated by high schoolers? What’s your problem? I haven’t noticed this assholey side of you before. Do you really think I believe that’s how Bush’s cabinet members would talk? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/185 "2009-02-07T02:14:11Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Nonsense. Or perhaps you could, like a couple of the other posters here have done, show me some photos to prove your point? I can’t think of a single time when I’ve seen meetings (summit-type meetings; not lunch) where world leaders were not all wearing suits…apart from Arab leaders, that is. Right. Meetings. You wear a jacket and tie to meetings. You need not wear them _in your own damn office_. Which was, in case anybody has forgotten, the actual original point of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/186 "2009-02-07T02:18:19Z")
Count me guilty as well, **YWTF**. I only read the “GQ” part which was in context to what the thread _really_ should be about. Thus in that sense I agreed and responded. But in no way do I subscribe to the “…black person trying too hard…” thought process – if one can call it that. In fact, as a said in my response, I think Obama can carry a more refined look than most American Presidents I can recall – nothing to do with skin color, I’m just being clinical from a former image consultant’s POV. For instance, you’d have to go back to Reagan if you want to find a President with a _personal_ sense of style. Whether one liked it or not, it was there, while the incumbents since have a sort of cardboard cut-out POTUS look about them. I do note that Obama’s suits are slightly more form-fitting, thus in my book he is already ahead of the past three. * * * And yes, dammit, contrary to American wingnut lore, it is perfectly normal to be a Social Democrat and know and like the better things in life. Hell, we’re even allowed to own a bunch of the stuff. Luis Felipe Gran Reserva. Anyone? Affectaciously, ~NickInUpperLeftCorner ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/187 "2009-02-07T02:23:03Z")
> [@](#): > > …Black people typically wear green better than white people… This is a unique insight. I can say that with some confidence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/188 "2009-02-07T02:25:25Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > …Luis Felipe Gran Reserva. Anyone?.. Only if you stole it from a capitalist swine. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/189 "2009-02-07T02:26:49Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Right. Meetings. You wear a jacket and tie to meetings. You need not wear them _in your own damn office_. Which was, in case anybody has forgotten, the actual original point of this thread. Damn. Now you’re twisting off again. The comment was in regard to **Frylock’s** comment about my meetings comment, which was a comment about…ah, forget it. I get tired of having to restate things that are right there in black and white. And **Red** , how the hell are ya? Long time no see. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/190 "2009-02-07T02:34:51Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > We’re not talking about the space in the White House where Obama lives – we’re talking about the Executive Office of The United States’ government. Which to him is effectively a home office. When I work in my home office, sometimes I dress up, and sometimes I’ll wander in with boxers and a bed head. It depends on what I’m doing and who I’m interacting with. Should he always dress up, even if he’s just hanging out in there playing around? > [@](#): > > Reagan & Bush had sufficient respect for the Oval Office that they wouldn’t enter it sans coat and tie. Cite for this please? That sounds pretty definitive, so I’m assuming you can back it up. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/191 "2009-02-07T02:42:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Only if you stole it from a capitalist swine. Well that’s sort of what I was asking – if some swine had some to share. Or did you think I was _offering_ some? * * * Howdy **Starvin’** , yes it’s been a while. Doing well, thank you, Sir. And doing so in this century. Care to join me? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/192 "2009-02-07T02:46:08Z")
I’m thinking **Scylla** ’s post was sort of a “redheads should never wear pink”, type of thing, only he was having a hard time saying it. Basically, what colors look good with certain complexions. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/193 "2009-02-07T02:48:47Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Well that’s sort of what I was asking – if some swine had some to share. Or did you think I was _offering_ some? > > * * * > > Howdy **Starvin’** , yes it’s been a while. Doing well, thank you, Sir. And doing so in this century. Care to join me? 😉 Hey, I’m here! It’s everybody _else_ that I have a problem with. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/194 "2009-02-07T02:58:30Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > If you don’t think having dark skin affects the way a person carries a dark formal suit than it’s not me that has the problem with prejudice, it’s you that has the problem with bad fashion sense. So if Obama is formally dressed, what does he look like to you: A) a waiter B) a guy who is trying too hard C) threatening D) POTUS A-C are things that you said about black people in general, without disclaimer about skin tone. And you used your opinion to explain why Obama might not be a big suit wearer. This isn’t about fashion sense, so don’t act like that’s what you meant. Oh, unless you’re trying to say black men in suits inherently represents some kind of fashion faux paus. Because that’s exactly what I have a problem with. I don’t think pale folks look good in white and I don’t think dark folks look good in all black, but you know what? “Not looking good” is not the same thing as looking like a waiter, trying too hard, or threatening. I might have agreed with you if were talking about making sure you’re wardrobe contrasts enough with your skin tone, but that’s not what you said. > [@](#): > > Monochrome anything is rarely a good look. In black it looks excessively formal and/or sinister. Black men tend to have black hair. Current fashion is close cut or bald, which also looks formal and/or sinister. It’s a little bit harder for a black men to soften that since he can’t tousle his hair and a bright tie creates a glaring contrast. whereas it’s a softer transition with a lighter complexioned man who eases the transition with lighter skin and hair color and styling and has more choices in shirt and tie color. Black men come in many hues. So do suits, shirts, and ties believe it or not. Who’s talking about monochromicity? There are many options to play with. None of these guys look like waiters to me and look ma, I’m not afraid of them either! [http://z.about.com/d/mensfashion/1/5/q/b/AlfaniBlack](http://z.about.com/d/mensfashion/1/5/q/b/AlfaniBlack) [![](https://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/452559970_d6285baaa9.jpg?v=0) ](https://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/452559970_d6285baaa9.jpg?v=0) [http://agriculture.tennessee.edu/news/releases/0709-Blackwell\_to\_retire.htm](http://agriculture.tennessee.edu/news/releases/0709-Blackwell_to_retire.htm) > **[DK Books](https://dk.com/en-us)** > > Moving the world forward, one book at a time. But why act like the problem is our disagreement with aesthetics when it’s not? Do you think Obama shies away from suits because his skin is the color of toast instead of milk? Because, being a black man, he doesn’t want to look like a waiter or be threatening? Really? _Do you honestly think Obama wouldn’t be able to work a suit equal to or better than 99% white men out there just because his skin is pigmented?_ Because that right there is some funny shit. > [@](#): > > A well-dressed black man should consider that he will typically look more formal than a white man in a similar outfit because of his complexion. Why is formal for a black man portrayed as looking like a waiter, threatening, or trying too hard? If a black man sneezes too loud he might cause a white man to cream his pants. But what are we gonna do about that? Tell them not to sneeze? Advise them not to come to work during pollen season? You’re essentially saying that black men have to dumb down their wardrobe to get along as well as white guys. Nonsense. What I recommend is that white guys get the sticks out their asses and grow some hair on their nuts. > [@](#): > > I seriously fucking resent the ignorant accusation you’ve made. You should be a bit more careful before throwing such shit around. Big words from a guy who thinks a brother in a business suit looks threatening. Excuse me while I _not_ cower in fear from this admonishment. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/195 "2009-02-07T02:59:11Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I’m thinking **Scylla** ’s post was sort of a “redheads should never wear pink”, type of thing, only he was having a hard time saying it. Basically, what colors look good with certain complexions. _The **Scylla** Wears Prada?_ ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/196 "2009-02-07T03:16:26Z")
And **Scylla** I’m not trying to get blow up this thread with a violent back and forth. If you want to come back with some more, fire away, but I’m not expecting you to do so. I will say this, though: your post on page 2 would have been fine if you’d talked about Obama as if he was an individual rather just a black guy who shouldn’t wear suits because black guys tend to look too formal in suits. If Clinton and Bush can dress in ways that suit their style and personality, then Obama can as well. Obama ain’t a stuffy type, so he doesn’t dress that way and _shouldn’t_ dress that way. It has nothing to do with his racial membership or skin tone. He looks great in suits (as do many black men) and anyone who can’t see that is blind. Here lately I’ve been sensitive to race…not just on this board but other places. Sorry if I came at you wrong, but your two cents made me too uncomfortable to not say anything. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/197 "2009-02-07T03:28:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Nonsense. Or perhaps you could, like a couple of the other posters here have done, show me some photos to prove your point? I can’t think of a single time when I’ve seen meetings (summit-type meetings; not lunch) where world leaders were not all wearing suits…apart from Arab leaders, that is. Bah, world leaders are a bunch of old fogies. > [@](#): > > :rolleyes: I was being a bit cheeky with my comments to you about suits. I recognize that there are a multiplicity of clothing languages in the world, not to speak of in the USA itself. It remains true that for me and everyone in my peer group, suits do not mean what they mean to you. But I recognize that to you and a lot of other people, they still do mean what you say they do. I would bet a lot of money, though, if I had it and I were the gambling type that in 20 years, maybe 30, your attitude toward suits will be viewed with amused puzzlement by most people. Well, maybe 50. This seems to be the way the wind is blowing. But regarding my comment you had just quoted, it is indeed my experience from working in the service industry that guys in suits are more likely to be assholes. So I was nicer to them. > [@](#): > > Do you really think I believe that’s how Bush’s cabinet members would talk? Wait, what? Do I really believe _what_’s how Bush’s cabinet members would talk? I didn’t say anything about how anybody would talk. What did you think I was saying? What I was saying was that what you said about the cabinet could only make sense if we assume that the people working in the cabinet are teenagers. This is of course hyperbolic but I hoped the point was clear enough. (Apparently not!) -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/198 "2009-02-07T03:34:46Z")
Ah, I get it now with what you said about what I said about high schoolers. You thought I was saying you really think cabinet members think in exactly the phrases you used, which phrases are in fact teenager-y phrases. That’s not what I meant, though it completely makes sense you might think I meant that. What I meant is this. You seemed to be saying that if the president just lets it go when someone is late to a meeting, then the rest of the members of his cabinet will not try as hard to be on time, because they see the president doesn’t do anything bad to them when they are late. And I was saying that to think this is to think the cabinet is composed of teenagers, because that’s the way teenagers think, not adults. Again, of course I put the point hyperbolically. Put less hyperbolically, my point is that you seem to be attributing attidudes to people who work in the white house that one would expect of _immature and unsucessful_ individuals when in fact people who work in the white house are almost certainly _mature and successful_ individuals–individuals who have control over themselves rather than insisting on placing control in external agencies. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/199 "2009-02-07T04:02:27Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And **Scylla** I’m not trying to get blow up this thread with a violent back and forth. If you want to come back with some more, fire away, but I’m not expecting you to do so. No, I’ll stick basically with the “fuck you!” for the specious accusation. > [@](#): > > I will say this, though: your post on page 2 would have been fine if you’d talked about Obama as if he was an individual rather just a black guy who shouldn’t wear suits because black guys tend to look too formal in suits. Well actually my post if fine the way I wrote it. I don’t require your approval. > [@](#): > > Here lately I’ve been sensitive to race…not just on this board but other places. Sorry if I came at you wrong, but your two cents made me too uncomfortable to not say anything. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/200 "2009-02-07T04:24:07Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > my Dad\*, the Francoist clotheshorse, > > [snip] > > \*Made **SA** look like a reasonable centrist. :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642.md?page=11)