# Obama has to dress down, he's busy cleaning up your puke! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642 "2009-02-05T23:51:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/41 "2009-02-06T03:40:01Z")
Is it too soon to call for impeachment hearings? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/42 "2009-02-06T03:54:23Z")
And when is he gonna get that shaggy hair cut? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/43 "2009-02-06T04:00:17Z")
Christ, what a douche. Not wearing a tie is not “appropriate” of an office representing the Constitution, but his boss wiping his ass with the Bill Of Rights was no problem. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/44 "2009-02-06T04:01:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Seriously though, has anyone noticed that in almost all meetings of government leaders, everyone is wearing nice suits? There is a reason for that. Suits lend an air of professionalism and gravitas, and make them appear to be people who should be taken seriously. Sure, [I can see that](http://www.september11news.com/Nov14BushPutinTruck.jpg). Oh, well [maybe here](http://www.geocities.com/nma_america/bush-putin_ranch.jpg). Until Obama has a formal meeting with a foreign leader while in shirtsleeves, this is nothing but posturing by those with _convenient_ memories. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > There are going to be lots of government leaders around the world guaging Obama. The extent to which they cooperate with him or not – and the extent to which they try to take advantage of him or push him around – will depend largely on the impression they get of the seriousness and gravitas he projects. Very true. That is why he generally speaks in complete sentences, using words correctly, and expressing actual ideas related to genuine facts. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > In other words, in terms of garnering respect abroad – and isn’t that what so many of you around here have been so eager for? – he (and we) would be much better served by having a president who projects [this](http://temple-news.com/files/2008/03/barack-obama-by-christopher-wink-mar-2008.jpg) kind of an image, rather than [this](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_R_gQ0FjfYs0/SYBDVCzLSwI/AAAAAAAACt8/ikHix2cRe1M/s1600-h/ObamaCover-thumb-425x564.jpg) kind of an image 😃 > > And like it or not, no tie and shirtsleeves rolled up…even without the cigarettes and Pepto Bismol…subliminally creates an image closer to the second picture than the first. Only among a limited number of people whose buttoned down minds are more interested in clothing than substance, unless you were talking about [the “gravitas” on display, here](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/presidentbush/images/2008/09/12/putin.jpg). Ignoring the text, (much of it silly), in [this blog piece](http://journals.democraticunderground.com/davepc), it is interesting to note the number of presidents who have been photographed in the oval Office in shirtsleeves. I suspect that FDR and Gerry Ford each qualify as being respectful of the office. (And I am not sure why you are making a point of “no tie” as I do not recall having seen a photo of Obama working without a tie.) In most of the industries where I have worked, we have a word for people who spend their entire work day in suits: suits. (Short for “empty suits” since, for a remarkable number of cases, they got to their positions of power by “looking good” and were utterly incompetent wielding authority–the sort of person who would insist on berating a subordinate publicly because the subordinate was not wearing the “appropriate” clothing to enter a particular room and close the door, even though it was a Saturday.) ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/45 "2009-02-06T04:02:57Z")
Starving Artist, if the world was filled with people like you, we’d still be wearing powdered wigs, waistcoats, cravats and high collars. Why do you put so much stock in superficial appearances? Evolve, man. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/46 "2009-02-06T04:18:34Z")
I think a flightsuit might keep the dittoheads in line. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/47 "2009-02-06T04:19:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Under Mr. Bush, punctuality was a virtue. Meetings started early — the former president once locked Secretary of State Colin L. Powell out of the Cabinet Room when Mr. Powell showed up a few minutes late — and ended on time. In the Obama White House, meetings start on time and often finish late. **Starving Artist** , so, it’s okay to lock Colin Powell-SECRETARY OF STATE COLIN FUCKING POWELL out of the office during a meeting, but heaven forbid someone take off their jacket? Jesus, no wonder our country’s in such a mess right now. I think, as long as Obama doesn’t show his gall bladder scar off, or puke on any foreign leaders, taking his jacket off isn’t such a crisis. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/48 "2009-02-06T04:24:48Z")
> **[Archive blogs](https://www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/)** > > Los Angeles Times blogs that were published between 2006 and 2013. Here’s a picture taken in the Oval Office. That’s George Tenet in the striking pink tie and–GASP!–no jacket. Even better, see the guy standing on Bush’s other side? That’s Andy Card. Andy needs to have a tall glass of Shut The Fuck Up. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/49 "2009-02-06T04:39:21Z")
Personally, I feel that if Obama wanted to show a whole new level of respect for the Oval Office, he would make [**this attire**](http://www.whereistheoutrage.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/bush-flightsuit.jpg) mandatory. I hear it’s great for making Empty Victory Speeches. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/50 "2009-02-06T04:40:47Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > …his boss wiping his ass with the Bill Of Rights was no problem. The trouble with this place is that too many people confuse politically motivated opinion with fact. The Bill of Rights is in perfectly good shape, despite what Chicken Littles such as yourself like to proclaim. Remember when Bush was gonna take control of the military and seize power for life? Didn’t happen, did it? > [@cmyk](#): > > Starving Artist, if the world was filled with people like you, we’d still be wearing powdered wigs, waistcoats, cravats and high collars. Well, to whatever extent that that might be true, I’m glad the world isn’t filled with people like me. > [@cmyk](#): > > Why do you put so much stock in superficial appearances? Well, as you presumably know, I think that far too much in the way of life in this country sucks these days. Too many people act like crass, vulgar immature assholes. Now, among a certain ideology in this country, there’s nothing wrong with that – it’s even encouraged in some quarters. Still, I prefer otherwise, and the fact of the matter is that when people dress nicely, they behave better. (And in general get treated better. Try it sometime: walk around in a suit and tie and see if people don’t smile at you more, hold doors for you more, defer to you and treat you more respectfully, etc. It’s a more civilized way to live, and it engenders civility in return.) So in other words, it not so much about the clothes as it is about behavior. With regard to leaders and people in positions of power, my thinking is as I said it was above. It’s quite amusing that the leaders of countries the world over know this and dress and act accordingly, but here at the good old Dope everyone’s in favor of the “Hey, dude, whatever is fine” approach and think they’ve got some great insight as to how the world should work. > [@cmyk](#): > > Evolve man. Oh, I have. I dress just as sloppily and casually as everyone else. The difference is I don’t prefer it. > [@Guinistasia](#): > > Starving Artist, so, it’s okay to lock Colin Powell-SECRETARY OF STATE COLIN FUCKING POWELL out of the office during a meeting… Yeah, and I’ll bet he was on time the next time! If I were president, I wouldn’t want to be holding up a meeting of very busy people undoubtedly on a tight schedule (let alone my own) waiting for some member or another of my Cabinet to finally getting around to showing up. I think it was a good lesson for him. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/51 "2009-02-06T04:49:50Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yeah, and I’ll bet he was on time the next time! > > If I were president, I wouldn’t want to be holding up a meeting of very busy people undoubtedly on a tight schedule (let alone my own) waiting for some member or another of my Cabinet to finally getting around to showing up. > > I think it was a good lesson for him. :rolleyes: No comment. And taking one’s jacket off != being a total slob. That being said, I think wearing powdered wigs, cravats, and high collars would kick ass. Then I could dress like Marie Antoinette! ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/52 "2009-02-06T04:51:52Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Still, I prefer otherwise, and the fact of the matter is that when people dress nicely, they behave better. Cite? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > So in other words, it not so much about the clothes as it is about behavior. Obama’s behavior thus far has given all indications that he is able to hold the office of President of the United States with the dignity and respect that it deserves. Then again, that’s what a few of us have said – it’s his behavior that matters, not his clothes. When he farts at the table during dinner with other heads of state and invites Sarkozy to “get a whiff of that one, Frenchie!” it’ll be worth comment from someone like Andrew Fucking Card. Until then, if the best criticism to come from that side of the aisle is “he takes his tie and jacket off!”… I’d say Obama is doing a damn good job. > [@](#): > > With regard to leaders and people in positions of power, my thinking is as I said it was above. It’s quite amusing that the leaders of countries the world over know this and dress and act accordingly, but here at the good old Dope everyone’s in favor of the “Hey, dude, whatever is fine” approach and think they’ve got some great insight as to how the world should work. Do you know for a fact that the leaders of countries the world over have stricter dress codes for their office space? > [@](#): > > Yeah, and I’ll bet he was on time the next time! > > If I were president, I wouldn’t want to be holding up a meeting of very busy people undoubtedly on a tight schedule (let alone my own) waiting for some member or another of my Cabinet to finally getting around to showing up. > > I think it was a good lesson for him. Oh for fuck sake. Shut the fuck up, really. You completely miss the point, and not even gracefully. Bush isn’t Powell’s mama, and it’s likely that the SECRETARY OF STATE was busy doing things that the SECRETARY OF STATE DOES when he arrived a few minutes late. The proper thing to do (and in the interest of security, decorum, and making sure everyone’s on the same page) is to let him into the fucking meeting, and if you MUST, berate him privately afterwards and remind him to be on time next time. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/53 "2009-02-06T04:53:29Z")
We had a CEO who made it known that he thought all the male staff should wear ties. No edict was issued but gradually tie wearing became compulsory. Due to internal changes in the government our department acquired a new minister. When he came to meet the senior staff his first words to the CEO, while extending his hand, were, “Ah, the tie Nazi.” The minister was wearing a suit but no tie. When word of this got out tie wearing fell back to previous levels. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/54 "2009-02-06T04:55:10Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Personally, I feel that if Obama wanted to show a whole new level of respect for the Oval Office, he would make [**this attire**](http://www.whereistheoutrage.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/bush-flightsuit.jpg) mandatory. Seems to me that stopping shit like the GOP’s [kangaroo courts down at Guantanamo](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090206/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/obama_guantanamo_19) calls for frontal nudity _and_ considerable butt wiggling on the part of the leader of the free world. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/55 "2009-02-06T04:59:21Z")
Say **Starvin’** , would you happen to be a schoolmarm in your second job? Or is that just yet another charming aspect of your, er…personality? Rate you’re going you should be embalmed as a relic _already_. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/56 "2009-02-06T05:00:43Z")
If Obama shows up for the damn [job](http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/01/16/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4728085.shtml) He can dress like [this](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/21/Rocky_Horror_2.JPG) for all I care. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/57 "2009-02-06T05:03:31Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Still, I prefer otherwise, and the fact of the matter is that when people dress nicely, they behave better. People may think they behave better, perhaps. But… > [@](#): > > “I’ll never forget going to work on a Saturday morning, getting called down to the Oval Office because there was something he was mad about,” said Dan Bartlett, who was counselor to Mr. Bush. “I had on khakis and a buttoned-down shirt, and I had to stand by the door and get chewed out for about 15 minutes. He wouldn’t even let me cross the threshold.” Being a royal flaming prick over “civilized” attire kind of defeats the point. I think there is a level of dress that does show disrespect; going to work in gym shorts and shirt, even clean, is completely unprofessional, for example. But as long as you make an effort to look presentable, what you wear has little to no effect on how you do your job. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/58 "2009-02-06T05:05:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m glad the world isn’t filled with people like me. You and me both, brother. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/59 "2009-02-06T05:10:57Z")
I wear a suit all day. I do a lot of public speaking and I wear a suit while I’m doing it. Anytime I’m interfacing with the public I wear a suit. I look GOOOOD in a suit. I’m a big hairy guy and it does not look good when I make things casual. I look sloppy if I go even a little bit casual. I am also one of the trainers for my company, and I teach other people the importance of looking professional. One of my best guys wears a sweatervest and sports a soul patch. For him, it works. It’s all about style. Reagan was pretty formal and it worked. Bill Clinton looked good formal, but like me he looked sloppy and disreputable when we went casual. Bill Clinton should never dress down. Bush looked good in a suit. Bush looked good in very casual clothes. He didn’t look good in between. Obama still looks spiffy when he goes casual. He has a lean, angular form and features, close hair, and people with that kind of build can oftentimes pull it off. A black person suited up severely can look overly formal, like they’re trying too hard, or look like a waiter, or look threatening. I’m not being prejudiced here, it’s all about color and angles, Take a tall black thin man, dress him in a black suit and you have Darth Vader. Casual elements soften that. In full suit mode Obama is almost always smiling to soften the severity of his appearance. When he adds casual elements he can look serious without seeming severe. Different styles for different men. What works for one does not work for another. IMO, what he have here is a matter for GQ, not political commentators. That being said, at this stage I think Obama is slightly overdoing the “I’m a hardworking but casual man of the people” bit just a little too much. Doubtless he’ll adjust and fine tune as time goes by. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/60 "2009-02-06T05:16:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Too many people act like crass, vulgar immature assholes. Now, among a certain ideology in this country, there’s nothing wrong with that – it’s even encouraged in some quarters. Yep, and it’s not difficult to identify which particular ideology is associated with lack of couth: > [@](#): > > **George W. Bush:** There’s Adam Clymer, major-league asshole from _The New York Times_. > **Dick Cheney:** Oh yeah, he is, big time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642.md?page=4)