# Obama has to dress down, he's busy cleaning up your puke! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642 "2009-02-05T23:51:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/81 "2009-02-06T07:37:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …I’m the designated driver tonight for some friends who’ve been whooping it up while I’ve been posting here, I’m going to have to leave it.. Seeing as you have such a good reason, we will simply have to choke down our disappointment, being deprived of your insights. It will be hard, at first, but somehow, we may find the strength to go on. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/82 "2009-02-06T07:45:37Z")
One wouldn’t want (in the vernacular of a more civilized era :D) to leave the impression that one has no suitable riposte to one’s adversaries now, would one? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/83 "2009-02-06T07:51:00Z")
Here’s how dress matters: Is it appropriate? Would you offend anyone? Is it attractive? Is it contemporary? Does it fit? Is it clean? Is it in one piece? That’s all you need to worry about when dressing for any occasion. They’re rather common sense questions, and there’s a lot of room there for subjective judgement. Suits have their place in this world, and I agree in most executive offices, commercial or state, suits are the way to go. But good grief, the jacket is removable for a reason. When the atmosphere is more relaxed or it’s time to get busy, the jacket goes, the sleeves roll up, and maybe loosen the tie. Shit, take off the damn tie. Besides executive, middle management and sales, the suit shows up only for the most formal affairs in “western” civilization. Anywhere else, and you come off as a douchebag. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/84 "2009-02-06T07:53:10Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > And now Andy is a complete retard: > > [Bush in the Oval Office without a Jacket.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/05/bush-jacketless-in-oval-o_n_164513.html) Interestingly, methinks all but one of pics support **Scylla** ’s post, which is an impressive track record. (I thought Clinton looked fine in a tie but no jacket, but subsequent pics showed that flannel and tshirts didn’t suit him.) Bush looked better with the jacket on. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/85 "2009-02-06T07:57:04Z")
And an orange jump suit with a number on it would be even better! ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/86 "2009-02-06T08:01:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And the rest of the people in the room, not privvy to the discussion, would come away feeling: Cool, the big guy doesn’t get too cranked when we show up late. Until they, too, made the same mistake. And were privately admonished for it. Which is the way discipline in any business structure should work – privately, one on one; not through public lashing and shame. > [@](#): > > And besides, you have no idea what was or wasn’t going on at that meeting, the circumstances behind Bush’s locking the door, and what may or may not have been going on between Bush and Powell at the time. > … > Again, you have no idea of anything that was going on there. For all you know, there might have been contention between Powell and Bush and Powell was being passive-aggressive in not showing up on time. Or maybe Powell had advised Bush that he may not be able to make it and Bush wasn’t expecting him. Maybe the meeting was almost over and Bush didn’t want to bring everything to a halt in order to bring Powell in and bring him up to speed about everything that had gone on. Maybe Bush had to leave to catch a plane or meet with a foreign dignitary and for that reason had to make sure the meeting ended on time. Etc., etc., etc. Maybe there was contention between them? And Powell was being passive-aggressive? Oh, so it would be completely respectful and dignified to lock a staff member out of a staff meeting based solely on some personal bickering? :rolleyes: The article pretty clearly implies that Bush didn’t lock him out because he wasn’t expecting him. The article also says Powell arrived “a few minutes late,” not towards the end. Bush could have still ended the meeting on time – again, no one’s suggesting that it would have been appropriate to bring the room to a halt to admit Powell late and bring him up to speed. But there’s absolutely no reason why Powell couldn’t have been allowed to enter, quietly, take his seat, and catch up on his own. > [@](#): > > Now it may be that none of these things transpired and what you’re alleging was really the case. The thing is, though, that you have no more idea than I do what was going on that day, and you could be wrong just as easily as I might be. The difference is that I know I don’t know what went on that day. Nor do I. But again, I can’t think of a single reason to absolutely disallow Powell entry to the meeting because he was a few minutes late. No _good_, non-“because I say so” reason. No respectful reason. It’s not like this situation doesn’t come up countless times every day in the real world. We have daily meetings at work. If someone shows up late, they slide in quietly, take a seat, and get notes later if they missed anything. > [@](#): > > I wonder if you’d be so offended by Bush’s locking the door if it was Cheney who was locked out? I’m not offended at all, but I’d find it just as ridiculous. > [@](#): > > My contention is that dress does matter, especially when it comes to people in positions of power and responsibility. What would you think if, on a much lower level, a real estate agent showed up in his underwear to show you a house you might want to buy, or if an investment banker that you were considering investing a large sum of money with greeted you in his bathing suit? That would be ridiculous and unprofessional, obviously. But if a real estate agent wants to work in his wetsuit while he’s in his office, or if the investment banker wants to work in footie pajamas in his office, I couldn’t care less – it wouldn’t affect my opinion of their advice or work. > [@](#): > > It’s nonsense to claim that dress doesn’t matter, and it was to counter those claims that I came into this thread… Since the thread was started about Andrew Card’s disapproval of what Obama wears while in the Oval Office, I take those claims with the implied clause of “while he’s in the Oval Office.” Then you came in and counter with some unrelated argument about what he wears while out and about, meeting with public officials – not at all what he was being criticized for by Card, or what other posters were defending. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/87 "2009-02-06T09:47:26Z")
Personally, I think Obama should take a [leaf](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madiba_shirt) from [Nelson Mandela’s](http://www.presidentialshirt.co.za/shop/shopcontent.asp?type=News) book…tell me [this man](http://www.presidentialshirt.co.za/shop/images/ctimes_july96_2.jpg) doesn’t have gravitas, go on, tell me. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/88 "2009-02-06T13:13:52Z")
Andrew Card is just one of a long list of people from that fuckhead’s administration who’s mouth should not be anywhere near a microphone except to enter a plea. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/89 "2009-02-06T13:48:48Z")
> [@](#): > > **Starving Artist** said: > But see, here’s the thing. What if people were arguing to you that there was nothing at all wrong with gym shorts and shirt? Then you’d be right where I am now. There wasn’t anything wrong with gym shorts and a t-shirt in my former office. I got promoted, got a home office, and now wear pyjamas to work unless I’m actually on a customer’s site. I actually work better when I’m comfortable, rather than when I’m sitting there wondering when I can get out of the corporate clown suit. Most of the places that I go are business casual at best, and quite a few of them are flat out casual. That’s probably because the only thing they do care about is results. > [@](#): > > **atomicbadgerrace** said: > My own experience suggests that people of all fashion tastes get doors held for them. I never wear a suit and people hold the door for me all the time. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/90 "2009-02-06T13:55:37Z")
People behave better when wearing a suit? It’s not called white collar crime for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/91 "2009-02-06T13:59:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Suits lend an air of professionalism and gravitas, and make them appear to be people who should be taken seriously. So what was W wearing when he groped the Chancellor of Germany? What was his dad wearing when he threw up on the PM of Japan? “Appear to be” is right. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/92 "2009-02-06T14:16:15Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Ad hominem. I never said a word about their ‘office space’. The fallacy-callout-that-wins-the-debate you want is strawman, not ad hominem. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/93 "2009-02-06T14:23:30Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Starving Artist** , so, it’s okay to lock Colin Powell-SECRETARY OF STATE COLIN FUCKING POWELL out of the office during a meeting, but heaven forbid someone take off their jacket? > > Jesus, no wonder our country’s in such a mess right now. > > I think, as long as Obama doesn’t show his gall bladder scar off, or puke on any foreign leaders, taking his jacket off isn’t such a crisis. But it’s still going to be okay if he inappropriately touches up female foreign leaders right? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/94 "2009-02-06T14:25:49Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > That being said, I think wearing powdered wigs, cravats, and high collars would kick ass. Then I could dress like Marie Antoinette! I’m partial to the steampunk look myself. I wonder how President Obama would look with muttonchops. > [@elucidator](#): > > Ten bucks says Obama hasn’t worn a suit in years Michelle didn’t pick out. Yeah, but you have to admit that she has good taste. > [@elucidator](#): > > And an orange jump suit with a number on it would be even better! Until that happens, I’ll settle for sackcloth and ashes. I think it’d be awesome if there could be some sort of excommunication ceremony, just like the medieval Church did for lepers. Air it on national television and all that. All kidding aside, who gives a fuck? We’ve seen pictures of Obama in swim trunks, for heaven’s sake. I don’t care if he works in the Oval Office on a weekend in sweats and sneakers. As long as he’s dressed appropriately when it matters, he can dress as he likes the rest of the time. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/95 "2009-02-06T14:27:03Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > So what was W wearing when he groped the Chancellor of Germany? Or called out “Yo Blair!”? Or ignored a whole row of world leaders at the G20 summit in November? What was Cheney wearing when, on the floor of the Senate, he told Patrick Leahy to “go f\*\*k [him]self”? Is that the sort of professionalism and gravitas you mean, **SA**? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/96 "2009-02-06T14:28:30Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > Oh for fuck sake. Shut the fuck up, really. You completely miss the point, and not even gracefully. Bush isn’t Powell’s mama, and it’s likely that the SECRETARY OF STATE was busy doing things that the SECRETARY OF STATE DOES when he arrived a few minutes late. The proper thing to do (and in the interest of security, decorum, and making sure everyone’s on the same page) is to let him into the fucking meeting, and if you MUST, berate him privately afterwards and remind him to be on time next time. Wouldn’t it be cool if that were the meeting where the immaculately dressed and therefore better behaved and all-round superior Bush guy, decided to attack Iraq on trumped up charges. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/97 "2009-02-06T14:34:11Z")
I anxiously await John Quincy Adams’ Pitting for disrespecting the Presidency by not wearing a powdered wig. In all seriousness, whatever Obama does to change the culture of Washington can hardly be bad. That would include a little informality. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/98 "2009-02-06T15:11:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Or called out “Yo Blair!”? Or ignored a whole row of world leaders at the G20 summit in November? > > What was Cheney wearing when, on the floor of the Senate, he told Patrick Leahy to “go f\*\*k [him]self”? > > Is that the sort of professionalism and gravitas you mean, **SA**? Or decided to get physical with the German chancellor? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/99 "2009-02-06T15:39:31Z")
**Starving Artist** , you should look up the definition of “ad hominem”. Hint- it’s not what you’re ascribing it to. Personally, I dislike any company or person who insists that I need to wear a glorified \*bib \*just to do business with them. Ties are antiquated and unnecessary. Just get rid of 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642/100 "2009-02-06T15:42:01Z")
Boy, nothin’ gets you people cranked up like the suggestion that someone should dress nicely. It’s telling, that is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-has-to-dress-down-hes-busy-cleaning-up-your-puke/484642.md?page=6)