# Obama, I Loves Ya, but STFU about DTV **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 9, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448 "2009-01-09T00:13:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/181 "2009-01-12T05:18:59Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Say what? You can receive the airwaves on your own dime. There is no obligation for the rest of us to pay for it. You (and everyone else) are obliged to pay for the upkeep of the Federal Interstate system so that I (and everyone else) may have access to a viable, well-maintained, transportation system. Whether I choose to make use of that Interstate in a Rolls-Royce, a duct-taped together '72 Pinto, or a public bus is left up to me. But if we all decide tomorrow to make a paradigm shift in the way the Interstate works (say for some reason only hydrogen-powered cars can function on the freeways after Feb. 17, 2009) then the citizens of the USA, acting through Congress, may feel that some assistance in procuring the new hydro-cars is beneficial economically and otherwise. We would simply decide that it is not good for our country to leave millions of people with no way to get to work or school. That’s a bit like what’s going on here. I think you may be under the impression the broadcast airwaves in the U.S are only meant to be used by media conglomerates to shove glurge down our throats and profit massively from it. That **IS** what _cable_casts (cable–not broadcast) of pay-per-view WWF wrestling matches are for and if anyone wants to watch that crap (or Fox News, or CNN) they are on their own and deserve no more help from the government than they would paying for a trip to a strip club. But I assure you, that is not the way the public airwaves work. I am not sure that you understand how broadcasting, the granting (and revoking) of broadcast licenses, the necessity of a robust communication system with relatively equal-access, and U.S. broadcast law in general works. That’s OK, most people don’t. But maybe back off a little about things you don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/182 "2009-01-12T05:48:02Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I’ve asked, and have not seen a response, when - exactly - do those who feel that the digital changeover is mis-timed believe that it should happen, and how do they feel that complaints will differ then than now? The digital changeover was not mistimed at all. Feb. 17th is as good a time as any. The problem is that because of our complete economic clusterfuck Congress did not have the money (and/or was not able to appropriate enough buckage) to adequately fund the converter-box coupon program. Since people–through no fault of their own–suddenly became unable to get the coupons they were promised to help fund their personal changeover, Obama, and others felt it might be a good idea to delay the changeover until the coupons become available again. The fact that the clueless “head-in-the-ass” procrastinator crowd gets a reprieve; one more chance to wake up and get finally remove head from ass is just a fortunate (for them) coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/183 "2009-01-12T06:20:24Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Huh? 😕 What is so difficult to understand? Claiming deductions and credits on your taxes are free gifts from the rest of the taxpayers, courtesy of the Internal Revenue Code. At least, they are as much a free gift as the DTV converter box coupons, as **CarolStream** has claimed. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/184 "2009-01-12T06:22:11Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > If he/she takes legal deductions then the taxpayer isn’t taking a thing from fellow citizens. But taking a coupon from a legal government-subsidized program **is** taking something from fellow citizens? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/185 "2009-01-12T06:23:42Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > How is filing a tax return “taking handouts from my fellow citizens?” Perhaps I jumped the gun. Perhaps you do not claim any deductions or exemptions. Perhaps you pay the full tax rate on every dollar your earn. In that case, “my bad.” ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/186 "2009-01-12T06:43:14Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > You (and everyone else) are obliged to pay for the upkeep of the Federal Interstate system so that I (and everyone else) may have access to a viable, well-maintained, transportation system. Whether I choose to make use of that Interstate in a Rolls-Royce, a duct-taped together '72 Pinto, or a public bus is left up to me. > > But if we all decide tomorrow to make a paradigm shift in the way the Interstate works (say for some reason only hydrogen-powered cars can function on the freeways after Feb. 17, 2009) then the citizens of the USA, acting through Congress, may feel that some assistance in procuring the new hydro-cars is beneficial economically and otherwise. We would simply decide that it is not good for our country to leave millions of people with no way to get to work or school. That’s a bit like what’s going on here. The comparison is only fair if, like in the current situation, the overwhelming majority of people already have hydrogen powered cars. I was finally able to locate an article that said how many households - **including** those who did get the converter boxes already - are actually affected by the switch: no more than eight million. Moreover, over 500,000 of those households are in the LA area. If the problems exist in large urban areas primarily, couldn’t they just delay the switch for those areas? Sure, the odd grandma here and there might need someone to buy her a box anyway if she lives outside a large concentration of fellow analog users, but is it really worth delaying for that few people? Again? Bear in mind that it’s already been delayed numerous times - the switch date was orginially in October of 2006. And could someone confirm if Obama’s request is actually being honored like some of the last posts in this thread suggest? I found an article from yesterday where someone involved in the switch was urging the government to ignore Obama, so it doesn’t seem like a done deal yet. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/187 "2009-01-12T07:19:17Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Maybe your bias has blinded you. Among the flaws I have enumerated, aside from those in this thread, are these: > > [ol] > [li]His naivete with regard to the nefarious intentions of others[/li][li]His vulnerabilities to exploitation due to the moral depravity of people in Washington[/li][li]His reliance on the goodwill of wily Congressional leaders[/li][li]His natural kindness and the fragility it exposes[/li][li]The possibility that he might fail altogether due to the pettiness and gluttonous greed of others[/li][/ol]I could go on, but I think that alone is a considerable list. Well, it’s official: Barack Obama is a Mary Sue. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/188 "2009-01-12T08:51:13Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I disagree. This coupon program has been active for more than a year, and people have sat on their hands. If the changeover was scheduled to happen on X date and people applied for a coupon 4 months before said date, why is that wrong? The only deadline is the changeover date. In fact, that’s not even a deadline, that’s just the point when their current TVs would go dark. I heard a lot of “apply for your coupon today at blah blah website” which right there posed a difficulty to people who aren’t online (I applied for the coupons for all of my elderly relatives who needed them, they’re not people who know jack diddly crap about websites) but I never heard “apply for your coupon today because quantities are limited” or “apply for your coupon today before this program runs out of funding.” > [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > The digital changeover was not mistimed at all. Feb. 17th is as good a time as any. Except for people who will need to install or adjust outside antennae and live in places where February comes along with snow and/or ice. I don’t know about you, but I’m going to be pretty pissed if I hear about some poor shlub dying or breaking himself into pieces because he was trying to fix his TV reception for his crying kids who wanted to see their Elmo and slipped and fell off the slick asphalt shingles, you know? ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/189 "2009-01-12T13:53:08Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > I don’t know about you, but I’m going to be pretty pissed if I hear about some poor shlub dying or breaking himself into pieces because he was trying to fix his TV reception for his crying kids who wanted to see their Elmo and slipped and fell off the slick asphalt shingles, you know? No, I don’t know. If I were to have an emotional reaction to a story like that, it wouldn’t be filed under “pissed.” ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/190 "2009-01-12T14:00:02Z")
Some numbers I have heard…50% of the country gets cable, so they aren’t affected. Of the remaining that use an antenna, only 7% isn’t digital ready. So after years of warnings and a year of government handouts, with 93% of the affected group ready for the change, we have to wait some more? Our state legislature decided that if 51% of all cable subscribers had digital units, it was enough to let the cable companies drop local community access in the 2…100 channel range, which they have done (no one is sure what the number is, and the cable companies aren’t telling, but they claim it’s more than 50%). So 51% is enough for one major change but 93% isn’t enough for another? Hogwash. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/191 "2009-01-12T14:24:22Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > What is so difficult to understand? Claiming deductions and credits on your taxes are free gifts from the rest of the taxpayers, courtesy of the Internal Revenue Code. > > At least, they are as much a free gift as the DTV converter box coupons, as **CarolStream** has claimed. Only on the Bizarro World of the SDMB can filing taxes and taking deductions be considered a “free gift”, rather than “defining what the true tax you are supposed to be paying actually is.” ---
**Author:** ![Influential\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Influential\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Influential_Panda)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/192 "2009-01-12T14:29:43Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Only on the Bizarro World of the SDMB can filing taxes and taking deductions be considered a “free gift”, rather than “defining what the true tax you are supposed to be paying actually is.” Not really. The fact that some people confuse deductions with free money is probably quite common, the same way people treat their refund like free money. “Let’s see how much money I’m getting _from the government_ this year!” when really people should be saying “let’s see how much of my money the government stupidly asked for.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/193 "2009-01-12T14:54:28Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > You’re the selfish bitch in this thread. Hey, if you can take advantage of your fellow citizens to get something for nothing, why the hell not, right? Typical loser thought pattern, there. Ha! Bitch, I already told you that I paid my taxes faithfully until I was laid off _so I have already paid into the general funds that cover the cost of this program_. In fact, since I have neither children nor mortgage I was almost certainly paying MORE in taxes than most of my peers. I was carrying all those “loser” suburbanites with McMansions and rugrats. I expect that, despite low wages, I will STILL have to pay taxes this year because, again, I have neither children nor mortgage and thus miss out on those deductions. So fuck off - I take advantage of NO ONE and I did not “get something for nothing” as I pay taxes just as you do. (And no, I am not confused about the difference between the various kinds of taxes we pay - you totally missed my point that _even the poor pay taxes_, no one truly gets a free ride in this country). I think what frightens you is the notion that someone who is NOT stupid, lazy, or a “loser” could fall into poverty because you find it threatening to your pretty little world. After all, if it could happen to me it could happen to YOU. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/194 "2009-01-12T15:02:27Z")
I view TV as the government’s way of controlling the masses-it serves two main functions: -dissemination of proaganda -keeping the urban poor at home, watching the visual equivalent of junk food So, those converter boxes are necessay-we cannot live without Opra! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/195 "2009-01-12T15:12:12Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > So 51% is enough for one major change but 93% isn’t enough for another? Hogwash. Perhaps the answer is indeed hogwash but in the other direction? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/196 "2009-01-12T18:13:36Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I view TV as the government’s way of controlling the masses-it serves two main functions: > -dissemination of proaganda > -keeping the urban poor at home, watching the visual equivalent of junk food > So, those converter boxes are necessay-we cannot live without Opra! If the government is trying to control the masses through TV they aren’t trying very hard. The masses don’t really watch PBS. And what propaganda are they disseminating exactly, “TAKE YOUR ANTIQUES TO THE ROADSHOW… THE ROADSHOW…THE ROADSHOW…”??? Another reminder–TV can, should, and does offer educational opportunities and warnings of local emergencies. Yes, even poor people should be informed about a tanker that has overturned and is leaking a toxic cloud. Unless of course, you would prefer that they succumb. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/197 "2009-01-13T01:21:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So fuck off - I take advantage of NO ONE and I did not “get something for nothing” as I pay taxes just as you do. (And no, I am not confused about the difference between the various kinds of taxes we pay - you totally missed my point that _even the poor pay taxes_, no one truly gets a free ride in this country). How many taxes did you pay that have anything to do with the converter boxes? I am guessing the grand sum total of zero. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/198 "2009-01-13T01:53:33Z")
What about the cost of a TV, period. I know that we are assuming that poor people have an older set with an analog tuner, but what if I am just starting out, and I don’t have a TV set at all? Should the government buy me one? And for TV, I need electricity. What if I can’t afford my electric bill? Will the government pay that? And for electricity to do any good, I need a home. I’m not talking about subsidized housing. I’m talking about cash on the barrel, buy me a house so I can watch my digital TV. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/199 "2009-01-13T01:57:28Z")
> [@Carol Stream](#): > > How many taxes did you pay that have anything to do with the converter boxes? I am guessing the grand sum total of zero. Good god, you really are fucking dense, aren’t you? _AS I ALREADY STATED:_ - through November of 2007 I was bringing home $50K+ a year and paying all applicable taxes on that. Do you comprehend that? You DO understand that I had a very nice corporate job with a very nice income, benefits, etc? You do understand that I have not always been poor, yes? As I already stated, not having either mortgage or children I had fewer deductions in my taxes than most of my peers. Therefore, assume I paid _exactly as much towards the converter box program as you did in 2007._ Why are you having a problem with this concept? How much will I pay in 2007? I don’t know yet - I have a W-2 from a part time job I held for several months, statements from two banks, a savings and loan, the stock investments we liquidated for cash, medical expenses we might be able to deduct, and _several_ 1099’s, not all of which I have received. Some taxes were withheld, some were not. It’s going to take a little time to sort out. It’s fucking January 12, do YOU have your 2007 taxes done yet? Have you even received all your paperwork yet? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/200 "2009-01-13T02:01:20Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > What about the cost of a TV, period. I know that we are assuming that poor people have an older set with an analog tuner, but what if I am just starting out, and I don’t have a TV set at all? Should the government buy me one? No, but perhaps the government should direct you to your nearest thrift store or pawn shop where serviceable TV’s can be purchased very cheaply. Especially the analog sets these days. > [@](#): > > And for TV, I need electricity. What if I can’t afford my electric bill? Will the government pay that? Believe it or not, there _are_ programs to help poor people pay their utility bills. It’s pretty hard to qualify for them, but they do exist. > [@](#): > > And for electricity to do any good, I need a home. I’m not talking about subsidized housing. I’m talking about cash on the barrel, buy me a house so I can watch my digital TV. Ha, ha, very funny. 😉 Wasn’t that what ARM’s were all about? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448.md?page=11)