# Obama, I Loves Ya, but STFU about DTV **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 9, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448 "2009-01-09T00:13:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/201 "2009-01-13T02:07:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It’s fucking January 12, do YOU have your 2007 taxes done yet? Have you even received all your paperwork yet? Yes, since it’s 2009 now. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/202 "2009-01-13T02:33:54Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > You (and everyone else) are obliged to pay for the upkeep of the Federal Interstate system so that I (and everyone else) may have access to a viable, well-maintained, transportation system. Cite? And yes, I understand that “We the People” own the airwaves. Check. Why do you think that the very same “We the People” are obligated to pay for (each) other’s access? In other words, cite? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/203 "2009-01-13T02:40:05Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > What is so difficult to understand? Claiming deductions and credits on your taxes are free gifts from the rest of the taxpayers, courtesy of the Internal Revenue Code. Filing a tax return with the legal deductions and credits is paying what you actually owe. It’s not a gift from anyone. Neither you nor the government have a right to my labor. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/204 "2009-01-13T03:13:12Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Neither you nor the government have a right to my labor. What do you think taxes are? They government is demanding you hand over part of your income, which is earned by your labor. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/205 "2009-01-13T03:17:43Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > What do you think taxes are? They government is demanding you hand over part of your income, which is earned by your labor. You missed post #201. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/206 "2009-01-13T03:20:44Z")
Anyone with half a brain would realize that what you refer to in #201 was an obvious typo on my part. Now, one more time - what do you think taxes are, other than the government taking a slice of your labor? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/207 "2009-01-13T03:32:31Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Anyone with half a brain would realize that what you refer to in #201 was an obvious typo on my part. > > Now, one more time - what do you think taxes are, other than the government taking a slice of your labor? A typo? If you say so. But you really don’t seem to know what you’re talking about when it comes to taxes. In any case, I render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, according to the tax law, on time, and in full. You needn’t be so obvioulsy grabby, though. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/208 "2009-01-13T03:55:32Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > A typo? If you say so. But you really don’t seem to know what you’re talking about when it comes to taxes. Only in your fevered brain’s deluded imagination. > [@](#): > > In any case, I render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, according to the tax law, on time, and in full. But I thought you said no one had a right to your labor - you fucking hypocrite. You oppose the government taking your labor, but yet you meekly hand it over and it’s OK because it’s the government taking your money? And you say I’m confused? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/209 "2009-01-13T04:47:45Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Only in your fevered brain’s deluded imagination. > But I thought you said no one had a right to your labor - you fucking hypocrite. You oppose the government taking your labor, but yet you meekly hand it over and it’s OK because it’s the government taking your money? > > And you say I’m confused? Oh, you’re confused all right. You keep railing about how many taxes you pay, but none of the ones you mention have anything whatsoever to do with converter boxes. What’s next, are you going to claim that the state/local cigarette and beer taxes you pay get you a converter box? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/210 "2009-01-13T04:53:07Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > A typo? If you say so. But you really don’t seem to know what you’re talking about when it comes to taxes. That was a pretty obvious typo, and I don’t find it very convincing of your case that you couldn’t see it as such. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/211 "2009-01-13T05:04:01Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Only on the Bizarro World of the SDMB can filing taxes and taking deductions be considered a “free gift”, rather than “defining what the true tax you are supposed to be paying actually is.” I guess making the correlation between the government incentivizing particular behaviors in the form of tax deductions with encouraging people to “switch” to DTV by handing out coupons was too much for you make? Here, let me be clear. The coupons are no more a handout than tax deductions. Tax deductions not a handout? Neither are the coupons. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/212 "2009-01-13T05:07:46Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Neither you nor the government have a right to my labor. Me? Nope. Government? Quite debatable. Debtor’s prison may not exist, but the [BOP](http://www.bop.gov/) does. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/213 "2009-01-13T12:30:01Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Oh, you’re confused all right. You keep railing about how many taxes you pay, but none of the ones you mention have anything whatsoever to do with converter boxes. And which taxes, specifically, do you think pay for the converter box program? Are you under the delusion there is a specific “converter box tax”? And why do you think I’m not paying taxes? Really, I said that when fully employed I paid all required taxes, that should be answer enough, unless of course you’re a vindictive cunt flailing around for ammunition in an argument you’ve already lost. > [@](#): > > What’s next, are you going to claim that the state/local cigarette and beer taxes you pay get you a converter box? Since I do not smoke I have never paid cigarette taxes in my life. Beer (actually, all forms of alcohol) was another item I gave up immediately on losing my job since it’s a money sink, so I haven’t paid alcohol taxes for over a year, either. I will say, though, that those taxes do help fund the state-subsidized health insurance I now have - but unless you live in Indiana you aren’t helping out with that one. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/214 "2009-01-13T14:04:58Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > I guess making the correlation between the government incentivizing particular behaviors in the form of tax deductions with encouraging people to “switch” to DTV by handing out coupons was too much for you make? > > Here, let me be clear. > > The coupons are no more a handout than tax deductions. Tax deductions not a handout? Neither are the coupons. “Too much for me?” Really now; uncalled for. I refuse to get sucked into a spiraling “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin SDMB argument”, but I insist it’s invalid to equate all tax deductions, regardless of intent, magnitude, and scope. Some are clearly “handouts” and others are not. Business expense deductions, home mortgage deductions, child deductions, and DTV coupons are not equivalent. If you honestly believe that all deductions are “handouts” then we will never have a meeting of the minds, and good day to you. ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/215 "2009-01-13T15:31:33Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Business expense deductions, home mortgage deductions, child deductions, and DTV coupons are not equivalent. > > If you honestly believe that all deductions are “handouts” then we will never have a meeting of the minds, and good day to you. Perhaps a “handout” is a deduction that someone else takes, and you do not? The government encourages home ownership by allowing citizens to deduct their mortgage interest, reducing their tax burden, and, in essence, handing out money to them to subsidize home purchases. If the converter program had been implemented as a $40 tax credit for each taxpayer who submitted documentation on his tax return proving that he had bought a converter, would your opinion of it be any different? The net financial effect is the same. Less money in the federal coffers, because those missing dollars were used to encourage a purchase. In one case, we’re talking about purchasing houses, and the other, purchasing a device to enable television reception. It’s perfectly legitimate to talk to about what sort of purchases the government should be encouraging, or whether it should be engaged in such behavior at all, but I fail to see how the two are not equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/216 "2009-01-13T16:31:32Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > You’re the selfish bitch in this thread. Hey, if you can take advantage of your fellow citizens to get something for nothing, why the hell not, right? What is this gibberish? The government takes away your ability to use your TV set, and pays compensation to make you whole with a converter box that makes the TV set work again. Where do you get “something for nothing” out of that? (The doctor with the rubber glove and the little flashlight will be along to answer this question in a moment…) ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/217 "2009-01-13T20:51:12Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > If you honestly believe that all deductions are “handouts” then we will never have a meeting of the minds, and good day to you. No, I believe that deductions are government-approved incentives designed to encourage particular behaviors out of the population. I also believe that DTV coupons are not a handout, but are instead a government-approved incentive to encourage the particular behavior of consumers buying DTV converters. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/218 "2009-01-13T23:49:57Z")
Debating over the validity of taxation and whether or not coupons should exist is sort of a moot point, isn’t it? For better or for worse, the coupons do exist, the boxes are being subsidized, and that’s not changing, whether the digital delay happens or not. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/219 "2009-01-14T04:34:59Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > And which taxes, specifically, do you think pay for the converter box program? Are you under the delusion there is a specific “converter box tax”? And why do you think I’m not paying taxes? Really, I said that when fully employed I paid all required taxes, that should be answer enough, unless of course you’re a vindictive cunt flailing around for ammunition in an argument you’ve already lost. Why don’t you answer your own question, dearie. Which taxes that you do pay go towards the converter box program? So far you’ve mentioned sales tax, and Social Security tax. Neither of which support said program. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2009, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/220 "2009-01-14T09:02:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > …And which taxes, specifically, do you think pay for the converter box program? Are you under the delusion there is a specific “converter box tax”? And why do you think I’m not paying taxes? Really, I said that when fully employed I paid all required taxes, that should be answer enough, unless of course you’re a vindictive cunt flailing around for ammunition in an argument you’ve already lost… You’ve described \*\*Carol Stream \*\*perfectly! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448.md?page=12)