# Obama, I Loves Ya, but STFU about DTV **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 9, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448 "2009-01-09T00:13:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/81 "2009-01-09T20:07:56Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > No different than the Bushophobes around here who take any and every occasion to yammer on about how EEEEEVIL!! \ Bush is, how everything from global warming to the Bratz dolls was his fault, etc. etc. etc. Yes; you both suck equally. Congratulations. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/82 "2009-01-09T20:11:41Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Whose resources are they, and who is making the money? From Wiki: “In the United States, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) conducts auctions of licenses for electromagnetic spectrum. The FCC has been conducting competitive auctions since 1994 rather than assigning spectrum through comparative hearings (under which the specific merits of each applicant is litigated), or through lotteries. FCC spectrum auctions are open to any company or individual that is determined by the Commission to be a qualified bidder.” So, initailly, our cash strapped government makes some money. Then, the owners of those new licenses will use them to create profit, use that profit to employ people, people use that income to buy widgets, the wiget people use that income to… etc., etc. ETA: Per Wiki, the auction of the analog stations in the 700 Mhz range netted $19.592 billon. [link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_2008_wireless_spectrum_auction) ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/83 "2009-01-09T20:13:26Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > What does Bush have to do with anything? You said something stupid, and I disagreed. Yes, AND you included a snarky little comment about my “tone”. It was that little comeback that I was referring to when I pointed out that… “Gosh… I wonder if the constant Bush-bashers around here can take as well as they dish out?” And Giraffe… you stood up loud and stood up proud to declare “No! We can’t!” ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/84 "2009-01-09T20:14:06Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > …This is true. There are Comcast customers (I say Comcast, because I have Comcast and I see their PSAs) who, despite the Comcast PSAs that run at least once every half hour, seem to be completely unaware that they are already prepared for the DTV switchover. The PSA’s message is ‘Don’t worry about the change to digital TV. You have cable, and do not need to do anything to prepare.’… Until a natural disaster takes down Comcast. I lost power, cable & high-speed Internet when Hurricane Ike blew through Houston. Luckily, my power came back the next day. My Comcast was down for a week, but I was able to watch local TV through my little antenna. I procrastinated about getting a coupon & may have to pay full price for a converter for the kitchen TV. No big problem. (Getting another cable line would be cheap–but I don’t want to depend on Comcast 100%.) What’s a minor convenience for me will be a major one for some people. Who make less than the median income here at the SDMB. So they don’t matter, I guess. Could somebody please tell me what wonderful technical advances will come after the big switch? Something really impressive, please! Edited to add a question to Sateryn76: What specific ventures can you envision? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/85 "2009-01-09T20:14:45Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Yes; you both suck equally. Congratulations. YES!!! I have been equated with **Giraffe**!! Thank you **MsWhatsit** , my work here is done. Good day and God bless to you all. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/86 "2009-01-09T20:17:40Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Sorry, but it really is a rich vs. poor thing. If you aren’t poor, the cost of a converter box probably isn’t a big deal, but if you are poor, it is. You can argue about whether they _could_ afford it if they cut this, that and the other out of their lives, but the point is that if you’re poor paying that much _hurts_. > > If you’re struggling to put food on the table for your family or pay the heating bill, a converter box is a significant expense. I’m sure there are people who’d say “Well, if you’re that poor then you don’t have the luxury to worry about watching T.V.” But life is hard enough when you’re poor. How quick would you be to give up one of the few forms of entertainment you can reasonably afford? I am not poor. I have a digital television. I don’t watch it. The fact that it has a receiver at all is a non-issue for me. It certainly does have better reception and more channels, but who cares? I won’t watch anything with commercials. I use it as an HD monitor. I read for entertainment. It’s free with a library card, though I do purchase books. If you rely that heavily on television, there is an issue in itself. And again, you can always listen to a radio in an emergency. I would welcome the return of dramatic radio. The reason I want them to continue with the switch is that I want those freqs open to cell phone tech - I wanna be able to make a call stranded in the snow in the mountains with two flat tires. The increase in reception to cell phones will save many more than not having a television will kill. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/87 "2009-01-09T20:30:10Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Old? > > Like I mentioned before, two years ago TVs with “analog-only” receivers were sitting on store shelves. > > If I may modify your quote - > “Hey, remember TV, which you’re used to getting for free? Well, that TV you bought two years ago that gets a great picture with those rabbit ears - we’re going to make you pay $40 for a box and $200 for an outdoor antennae so you can keep getting it.” > > Don’t kill yourself trying to install the antennae in February. I am curious- I had some reception issues on the new dtv I installed, so out of curiousity I plugged in an old rabbit-ear I had, and it juiced the dtv signal up fine. Why would you need a new antenna? ETA:Oh, and no I don’t use it, but anyone wants to play with a new toy… ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/88 "2009-01-09T20:32:30Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > YES!!! I have been equated with **Giraffe**!! > > Thank you **MsWhatsit** , my work here is done. Good day and God bless to you all. No, you haven’t. Sorry to rain on your parade, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/89 "2009-01-09T21:00:03Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > ETA: Per Wiki, the auction of the analog stations in the 700 Mhz range netted $19.592 billon. [link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_2008_wireless_spectrum_auction) Well, damn, nearly $20 billion should have been much, much more than enough to buy converter boxes for the relatively small number of people who needed them, right? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/90 "2009-01-09T21:05:48Z")
> [@gurujulp](#): > > I am curious- I had some reception issues on the new dtv I installed, so out of curiousity I plugged in an old rabbit-ear I had, and it juiced the dtv signal up fine. Why would you need a new antenna? > > ETA:Oh, and no I don’t use it, but anyone wants to play with a new toy… QFT. Hell analog signal amplifiers seem to work on DTV in my experiance. The old $20 dollar radioshack amplifier, bit rusty in places, looks a bit odd wired into my shiny modern desktop computer’s dtv usb stick; yet it works. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/91 "2009-01-09T21:18:13Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > I’m still scratching my head over why the switchover to digital TV is so gosh-darned important that analog TV has to be shut down. The relevant [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television_transition) article states three “advantages” to the handover: > Point 1 seems like a toss-up to me. People who still get TV through an antenna (i.e., the ones most likely to still be using analog) will apparently often be getting worse picture due to [multi-path interference](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television#Effects_of_poor_reception). Point 3 sounds good, but my experience with multiplexed subchannels is that it’s all hype and little substance: “Shop on TV” and that kind of crap. > > That leaves Point 2. Guess it really is all about the money, then. You’re right, a large part of it does come down to money. But not money in a vacuum, hopefully money that creates jobs and builds infrastructure (something Obama is pushing from a generic standpoint). Here’s a document I got from Joltin’ Joe’s office: [http://lieberman.senate.gov/documents/crs/digitaltv.pdf](http://lieberman.senate.gov/documents/crs/digitaltv.pdf) It lists the following possibilities: - Improved wireless internet (including, IIRC, city-wide Wi-Fi, which could benefit all the folks without broadband, and facilitate city-planned measures to roll out wireless net access to lower income folks). - A specific bandwidth allocation for service-plan free mobile phones (which could also benefit low-income folks). - 24 MHz of new frequencies for public safety use, meaning police, fire, EMT, etc. Which also benefit people in general. IIRC there is a study on how the use of this frequency band would help first responders get a better signal in dense urban areas, like New York City. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/92 "2009-01-09T21:21:12Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > First off, thank you for being one of the few people to actually address the core issue. > > The problems with the coupons are a valid point, but as far as the overall point of how we as a technological society decide when to upgrade our infrastructure, I’m not sure it changes anything. I’m certain that with any program people will not take advantage of it one way or another. Case in point - as of November, there were well more than a quarter million stimulus checks still unclaimed by folks - free money, and it’s fallen through the cracks. > > [http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/28/news/economy/stim\_check/index.htm?postversion=2008112810](http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/28/news/economy/stim_check/index.htm?postversion=2008112810) > > In short, that sucks, but it’s also not unexpected. I don’t disagree with you here. I don’t think we should, or realistically could, wait for everyone to adopt new technology. However, I do feel that people should have ample opportunity to adopt the new technology, and I think it is fair to say that if they have been promised a coupon towards said technology, it is unfair to withdraw that offer. That’s effectively what has happened to many people. I think extending the adoption period only is appropriate in this case because of the extenuating circumstances with the coupon program. Otherwise, I’m all for cutting it off now. Incidentally, these problems [are not new](http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/04/dtv_coupons.html) and have been largely ignored. > [@](#): > > I must respectfully question your implied premise of whether or not radio is _unavailable_ to folks (you say uncommonly used, which I do agree with. But I do not believe it is actually unavailable, which seems implied). I did not mean to imply this, but rather to indicate that it is increasingly uncommon in homes (as music/entertainment devices more and more frequently do not include radio capabilities) and that it is less valuable a source than TV. > [@](#): > > With every indication being, from Obama himself, that this crisiswill last well into 2010 and beyond, my opinion is that in six months exactly the same number of people would be protesting this on the SDMB (and very few additional converter boxes would be bought). Whereas the sale and utilization of the freed-up radio spectrum may ironically spur economic growth and result in a net positive for the country. I’m not convinced that sale of the spectrum will necessarily be a positive for taxpayers. Right now, they have a free source of entertainment that is accessed by many people. If we take that away and leave people in the lurch, they haven’t benefited. Perhaps you’re right, though. I do agree we’re likely to see the crisis as an ongoing issue, but I point it out to help indicate why the coupon program is so important in order to get the most affected individuals to the current technology. $10, the cost of a Wal-Mart converter minus the coupon, is much more feasible to many families than $50, and $40 can buy quite a bit of food, or sustain cell phone coverage for a month or more (frequently used by the poor due to frequent moves or lack of a permanent residence, and you need a phone if looking for work). I’m not saying we need to put our heads in the sand about the conversion until we solve all of our other problems. I just favor a delay in order to handle our real problems with the conversion itself and to help people to get what they have been promised. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/93 "2009-01-09T21:24:55Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > No different than the Bushophobes around here who take any and every occasion to yammer on about how EEEEEVIL!! \ Bush is, how everything from global warming to the Bratz dolls was his fault, etc. etc. etc. > > {snip} > > But as I was composing my posts I was thinking “Gosh… I wonder if the constant Bush-bashers around here can take as well as they dish out?” And **Giraffe** … you stood up loud and stood up proud to declare “No! We can’t!” Congratulations, you’re as petty and immature as people you claim to turn up your nose at. I’m sure you’re very proud of yourself. Go tell all your friends. They’ll be amazed and awestruck at your madz intarwebz debatingz skillz. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/94 "2009-01-09T21:30:37Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > Yes, AND you included a snarky little comment about my “tone”. It was that little comeback that I was referring to when I pointed out that… The best thing about your comeback was that it perfectly confirmed what I initially suspected based on your tone: for you, it’s all about scoring stupid little partisan points. You hold Obama to a completely different standard than you would someone who was on your team. When called on the thinking behind what you wrote, you have nothing to offer except comparisons to why your behavior is similar to what some other members of the other team once did. It adds nothing to a discussion, and is about as interesting as listening to a tattling seven year old. To be clear, I could care less if you bitch about Obama. Just try to do it in a non-embarrassing way. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/95 "2009-01-09T22:01:13Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > It lists the following possibilities: > > - Improved wireless internet (including, IIRC, city-wide Wi-Fi, which could benefit all the folks without broadband, and facilitate city-planned measures to roll out wireless net access to lower income folks). > - A specific bandwidth allocation for service-plan free mobile phones (which could also benefit low-income folks). > - 24 MHz of new frequencies for public safety use, meaning police, fire, EMT, etc. Which also benefit people in general. IIRC there is a study on how the use of this frequency band would help first responders get a better signal in dense urban areas, like New York City. Well, we’ll believe these when we see them. Citywide free wifi in particular has fallen short of promises more often than not in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/96 "2009-01-09T22:10:41Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Well, damn, nearly $20 billion should have been much, much more than enough to buy converter boxes for the relatively small number of people who needed them, right? The budget process doesn’t work that way. The FCC doesn’t get to keep the $20 billion it raises from the auction. Instead, that money goes into the US treasury to pay for Social Security, the Iraq War and auto bailouts, and the FCC has to have money from the Treasury assigned to it each year by the budget process. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/97 "2009-01-09T22:11:18Z")
Count me in the group that welcomes this delay. There’s channels that are just unwatchable in digital without major antenna tweaking, yet perfectly watchable in analog around here. When analog goes I either lose those channels or have to fix the rotor. Not cheap, and not safe in the winter. It’s on the steep roof. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/98 "2009-01-09T22:23:07Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Well, we’ll believe these when we see them. Citywide free wifi in particular has fallen short of promises more often than not in the past. Well, wouldn’t you agree that there’s sort of a chicken and egg thing here? The bandwidth has to be available first before someone commits to doing anything about it in this economy with credit so uncertain. And sure, there’s no guarantees. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/99 "2009-01-09T22:23:28Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > **Jenaroph and Dead Badger** There are so many things that need attention right now… Goodness me, all that stuff you mention sounds _terrible_! Why isn’t anyone doing anything about all those things? I’m all a-quiver, I tell you. And it certainly isn’t possible that Obama could be working on plans for those things while one of his aides is thinking about something else. It’s quite literally unthinkable, as I myself am currently thinking about something else. Maybe some kind of “Vice” President is in order, to deal with all the shit that’s not of cosmic significance. After all, we didn’t elect the guy to run the whole country, right? I’ll be plenty peeved if he tries to tackle education before curing cancer, I can tell you. Priorities, priorities. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/100 "2009-01-09T22:25:51Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > I don’t disagree with you here. I don’t think we should, or realistically could, wait for everyone to adopt new technology. However, I do feel that people should have ample opportunity to adopt the new technology, and I think it is fair to say that if they have been promised a coupon towards said technology, it is unfair to withdraw that offer. That’s effectively what has happened to many people. I think extending the adoption period only is appropriate in this case because of the extenuating circumstances with the coupon program. Otherwise, I’m all for cutting it off now. What if we allow people to deduct the cost of a converter, up to $40, from their taxes? Would that option convince you more to keep the current deadline? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448.md?page=6)