# Obama, I Loves Ya, but STFU about DTV **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 9, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448 "2009-01-09T00:13:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/141 "2009-01-11T00:55:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Bullshit. Social Security IS a Federal level tax. Yes, one that was meant to apply to the social security program only, not to the general fund which does such constitutionally necessary functions, envisioned by the founders, like provide converter coupons. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/142 "2009-01-11T01:04:55Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Bullshit. Social Security IS a Federal level tax. That “poor people don’t pay Federal taxes” is a smoke screen for those who would further burden those of the lowest wealth. Social Security taxes pay for Social Security, not tv converters. > [@](#): > > Finally - as I said, back when I was earning a very nice income - above the US average - I was content to subsidize the coupon program. Since I was will to do it, and given that I was paying plenty of taxes I did subsidize it. Why should YOU? Because I did. What kind of specious “reasoning” is that? I should subsidize it, because you did in the past? Huh? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/143 "2009-01-11T03:05:39Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Neither I nor Ayn Rand promote that attitude. It’s more like “fuck you for trying to take what’s mine by force instead of working for it yourself.” Well the government, on behalf of you, is taking some people’s access to the public spectrum. Don’t you feel you, as a voter, should compensate them for their loss? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/144 "2009-01-11T03:32:23Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Well the government, on behalf of you, is taking some people’s access to the public spectrum. Don’t you feel you, as a voter, should compensate them for their loss? The govenment is compensating them for their loss, to the tune of $40 for converters which tend to run about, well, $40. **Broomstick** , et al., feel that due to the fact that somewhere around 4-6% of the U.S. TV watching population - due to the inablility to pull their head out of their ass for the last two years - will temporarily lose TV reception in February, that that is a valid reason to delay the digital changeover for, well, one can only assume forever. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/145 "2009-01-11T03:56:34Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The govenment is compensating them for their loss, to the tune of $40 for converters which tend to run about, well, $40. **Broomstick** , et al., feel that due to the fact that somewhere around 4-6% of the U.S. TV watching population - due to the inablility to pull their head out of their ass for the last two years - will temporarily lose TV reception in February, that that is a valid reason to delay the digital changeover for, well, one can only assume forever. I am not really on the warpath about this but would just like to point out that the digital signal is apparently a lot more sensitive to buildings, etc., than analog signals. We live in an urban area and get 5 local channels sharp as a tack via analog transmission (plus a few more staticky channels). With the digital converter box, we got 2 sharp channels, 2 extremely choppy channels, and 1 channel that is totally dark. The $40 for the converter box does not adequately compensate us for either 1) losing 20-60% of our available channels, depending how you want to count it, or 2) having to shell out a monthly fee for cable to get the exact same service that we previously got for free over the air. Also, I have asked in two separate fora now and have not heard a really convincing answer as to why this is necessary. Answers seem to be, “the government can make more money this way,” and “it’s the future. it just is. it’s the FUTURE. shut up and stop impeding progress, BECAUSE IT’S THE FUTURE.” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/146 "2009-01-11T04:13:50Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I am not really on the warpath about this but would just like to point out that the digital signal is apparently a lot more sensitive to buildings, etc., than analog signals. We live in an urban area and get 5 local channels sharp as a tack via analog transmission (plus a few more staticky channels). With the digital converter box, we got 2 sharp channels, 2 extremely choppy channels, and 1 channel that is totally dark. As mentioned above, by me and others, you likely need a new antenna. > [@](#): > > The $40 for the converter box does not adequately compensate us for either 1) losing 20-60% of our available channels, depending how you want to count it, or 2) having to shell out a monthly fee for cable to get the exact same service that we previously got for free over the air. So don’t get cable, get a new antenna. At least your converter box is free. > [@](#): > > Also, I have asked in two separate fora now and have not heard a really convincing answer as to why this is necessary. Answers seem to be, “the government can make more money this way,” and “it’s the future. it just is. it’s the FUTURE. shut up and stop impeding progress, BECAUSE IT’S THE FUTURE.” I can’t imagine what answer would convince you, or others. Both of those answers are, in my opinion, adequate. I’ve asked, and have not seen a response, when - exactly - do those who feel that the digital changeover is mis-timed believe that it should happen, and how do they feel that complaints will differ then than now? ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/147 "2009-01-11T07:22:02Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I’ve asked, and have not seen a response, when - exactly - do those who feel that the digital changeover is mis-timed believe that it should happen, and how do they feel that complaints will differ then than now? I also still have not gotten any response to my offer of a free converter to a Doper in need. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/148 "2009-01-11T13:45:34Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The govenment is compensating them for their loss, to the tune of $40 for converters which tend to run about, well, $40. **Broomstick** , et al., feel that due to the fact that somewhere around 4-6% of the U.S. TV watching population - due to the inablility to pull their head out of their ass for the last two years - will temporarily lose TV reception in February, that that is a valid reason to delay the digital changeover for, well, one can only assume forever. It was in response to rand’s apparent assertion that the vouchers where theft. > [@Frank](#): > > As mentioned above, by me and others, you likely need a new antenna. cite? Even antenna aside there’s problems. Analog is more fault tolerant. You either get a blank screen, distorted unwatchable pixalation, or a perfect picture with digital. Analog you just get more and more snow. In my experience the human brain is alot better about cleaning up snow and watching a show through it then digital is about handling noise. > [@](#): > > I can’t imagine what answer would convince you, or others. Both of those answers are, in my opinion, adequate. Abandoning utility of the past just for change’s sake is stupid. > [@](#): > > I’ve asked, and have not seen a response, when - exactly - do those who feel that the digital changeover is mis-timed believe that it should happen, and how do they feel that complaints will differ then than now? When the technology has the same watchable signal coverage as analog. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/149 "2009-01-11T14:30:12Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > **Broomstick** , et al., feel that due to the fact that somewhere around 4-6% of the U.S. TV watching population - due to the inablility to pull their head out of their ass for the last two years - will temporarily lose TV reception in February, that that is a valid reason to delay the digital changeover for, well, one can only assume forever. I think we’re talking closer to 6 months to a year than “forever”. Even if we do nothing else, that’ll create enough time to fix the coupon backlog, and that wno’t cost the federal government any more than already authorized. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/150 "2009-01-11T14:45:19Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I think we’re talking closer to 6 months to a year than “forever”. Even if we do nothing else, that’ll create enough time to fix the coupon backlog, and that wno’t cost the federal government any more than already authorized. I disagree. This coupon program has been active for more than a year, and people have sat on their hands. If you delay the change to Feb 17, 2010, then people will relax, praise Obama, wait until January of next year, create another coupon backlog and demand another extension. Push it back to Feb 17, 2025. On Feb 18, 2025 there will be a news story about a poor little old lady sitting in her living room without TV because “no one ever told” her that she needed a converter box. Plus she is disabled, can’t go to the store… ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/151 "2009-01-11T14:54:31Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > I also still have not gotten any response to my offer of a free converter to a Doper in need. That is actually the most disturbing thing I’ve seen in this entire thread. That you can offer to **give a converter box away, absolutely free** , and folks would still rather not have it. Think for a moment about what that says about the motivation of the general populace to take action and actually _spend_ money (using a coupon) if the deadline was delayed 6 more months. Or a year. Or 100 years. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/152 "2009-01-11T17:24:40Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I disagree. This coupon program has been active for more than a year, and people have sat on their hands. If you delay the change to Feb 17, 2010, then people will relax, praise Obama, wait until January of next year, create another coupon backlog and demand another extension. The coupon backlog is coming about because people who don’t need the coupons are getting them, and because the agency that prints the coupons needs to assume a 100% coupon redemption rate. The problem is people like **elmood** who used a coupon to get an extra converter “just in case”, and with people who think they’re going to need a converter when they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/153 "2009-01-11T17:43:47Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The coupon backlog is coming about because people who don’t need the coupons are getting them, and **because the agency that prints the coupons needs to assume a 100% coupon redemption rate.** The problem is people like **elmood** who used a coupon to get an extra converter “just in case”, and with people who think they’re going to need a converter when they don’t. Bolding mine - is this really true, though? I assumed that one of the reasons the coupons expired so quickly was so that the issuing agency could release the unused funds and use them to issue additional coupons. I do not agree, by the way, that “change for change’s sake” is a good enough reason to enact this program. If there were some pressing need for the bandwidth, I would feel differently, but apparently there is no such pressing need. (I will admit some surprise on this topic, because when the switchover was first announced, I assumed that it was because the airwaves were needed immediately for some other use. Not just, “Well, digital is newer so we’re going to switch to it because it’s new.”) ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/154 "2009-01-11T18:53:51Z")
UHF TV was an insane waste of bandwidth. I never understood why the FCC made the band so large. To make things worse, the channel allocation rules wasted most of the band. Probably a concession to the dismal quality of UHF TV tuners for many years. The FCC has spent decades trying to put UHF on a par with VHF, with limited success. There’s a general principle that RF spectrum users should take advantage of new technologies in order to use that resource in an efficient manner. This is illustrated by the technical and regulatory history of mobile telephones and other two-way radio systems, which have evolved a tremendous amount, while radio and television broadcasting have seen limited changes. Think of a modern cell phone as a Toyota Prius and an analog TV set as a gas guzzling, air polluting, land yacht from the 1950s. With spectrum being a limited resource, all users have an obligation to not waste it. That’s why spark-gap radios were killed off so long ago. Analog TV is today’s spark-gap radio. There’s still a great deal of wasted and poorly utilized spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/155 "2009-01-11T18:58:24Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > Analog TV is today’s spark-gap radio. There’s still a great deal of wasted and poorly utilized spectrum. Hm, OK. I can see this. Thanks for explaining. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/156 "2009-01-11T20:09:08Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > That is actually the most disturbing thing I’ve seen in this entire thread. That you can offer to **give a converter box away, absolutely free** , and folks would still rather not have it. As it happens, my coupon FINALLY came just yesterday so I am no longer in need of a converter box - we just came back from obtaining one. Thank you, Carol Stream, Rand Rover, and all the other Randroids for subsidizing my TV watching against your will 😛 And a more serious public thank you to everyone who offered to help me out. Why don’t one or several of you start a thread to assist potentially needy Dopers with converter box acquisition? I know I"m not the only poor person on this forum (just one of the noisier ones) ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/157 "2009-01-11T21:19:32Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > As it happens, my coupon FINALLY came just yesterday so I am no longer in need of a converter box - we just came back from obtaining one. Thank you, Carol Stream, Rand Rover, and all the other Randroids for subsidizing my TV watching against your will Congratulations. However, you’ve failed to provide a reason, let alone a compelling one, as to why we should be subsidizing your tv. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/158 "2009-01-11T22:09:41Z")
You know, a long time ago in this thread I said that if **I** had been in charge of the program I probably wouldn’t have had a coupon program at all. I haven’t given you a compelling reason because there isn’t one. I also said that, whether or not I would have set up such a system I would be a fool not to take advantage of one that existed. In other words, our “representatives” saw fit to make this program and I took advantage of it. neener, neener. Did you SERIOUSLY think I’d forgo the free coupons/converter box due to mighty ethical principals? Ha! If you don’t like it call up your Clowngress critter and bitch to him/her. (Yes, the fact it pisses off a selfish, self-righteous bitch such as yourself is just a bonus as far as I’m concerned) ---
**Author:** ![Gwyen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/858c86/32.png) [@Gwyen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gwyen)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/159 "2009-01-11T22:10:19Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > No we are not. The fucking television is in hotels rooms. Heavy petting television (cable) is like wise not affected. We are talking about mild T and A television. > [@tim314](#): > > Sorry, but it really is a rich vs. poor thing. If you aren’t poor, the cost of a converter box probably isn’t a big deal, but if you are poor, it is. You can argue about whether they _could_ afford it if they cut this, that and the other out of their lives, but the point is that if you’re poor paying that much _hurts_. > > If you’re struggling to put food on the table for your family or pay the heating bill, a converter box is a significant expense. I’m sure there are people who’d say “Well, if you’re that poor then you don’t have the luxury to worry about watching T.V.” But life is hard enough when you’re poor. How quick would you be to give up one of the few forms of entertainment you can reasonably afford? > [@billfish678](#): > > Doesnt Obama have a few more important things to worry about? > > Honestly, if he’s spent more than a few minutes lately thinking about this issue, I am not impressed. > [@BubbaDog](#): > > I think the “just can’t do it” problem will be as big as the “can’t afford it”. > > That digital signal will not reach as far as the analog one does now. > > It will be interesting to find out which rural areas are cut off. Ok, as far as the TV conversion thing goes, I don’t care in the least. I don’t watch television often enough for it to matter. I do think that Obama should have much more important things on his agenda. However I kind of understand why he is pushing it. As the above quotes point out negative to the switch; the possibility of weak signals in rural areas, less affluent folks opting out of the purchase, and so on, I can see why Obama is pushing for the switch to take more time. He doesn’t want to be cut off from these people. He wants them to see all his public addresses. If the switch causes the loss of TV in many rural and or poor homes, for whatever reason, then those people will not hear him, or see him in action. Plausible? Yes Probable? Maybe not, but that’s my two cents! ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448/160 "2009-01-11T22:36:27Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You know, a long time ago in this thread I said that if **I** had been in charge of the program I probably wouldn’t have had a coupon program at all. I haven’t given you a compelling reason because there isn’t one. > > I also said that, whether or not I would have set up such a system I would be a fool not to take advantage of one that existed. > > In other words, our “representatives” saw fit to make this program and I took advantage of it. neener, neener. Did you SERIOUSLY think I’d forgo the free coupons/converter box due to mighty ethical principals? Ha! > > If you don’t like it call up your Clowngress critter and bitch to him/her. > > (Yes, the fact it pisses off a selfish, self-righteous bitch such as yourself is just a bonus as far as I’m concerned) You’re the selfish bitch in this thread. Hey, if you can take advantage of your fellow citizens to get something for nothing, why the hell not, right? Typical loser thought pattern, there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-i-loves-ya-but-stfu-about-dtv/480448.md?page=9)