# Obama is "Anticolonist," says D'Souza (and now Gingrich) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617 "2010-09-13T16:30:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/21 "2010-09-13T22:19:41Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > [List of American military installations - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_bases) > > > > Consider yourself doped. > > I count about 25 countries with something that could reasonably be called a “base” on that list. Me too. I count 25 according to the list, and about 40 according to the map in that article. Either way, pretty far from 130. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/22 "2010-09-13T23:09:04Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@RickJay](#): > > > > Not for an instant do I believe the United States has bases in 130 countries, unless your definition of “base” is absurd. > > All your bases are belong to us. Nicely played! Chris Matthews is doing a blurb on this right now. It’s almost surreal. Actually, it is surreal. I can’t even think of anything to say… ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/23 "2010-09-14T00:00:47Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Could someone explain what is supposed to be so terrible about Obama in the D’Souza article? I know that D’Souza feels he is making a point, and that Gingrich agrees, but whatever point he’s making it sailing right over my head. To quote Adam Serwer’s [great response](http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/adam_serwer_archive?month=09&year=2010&base_name=forbes_embraces_birtherism) to the article: > [@](#): > > They want to talk about the fact that our blackety black president is blackety black. It has been two years since a black man was elected president of the United States, and for a group of conservatives clinging to their cultural superiority, this was a moment of apocalyptic existential crisis, a moment that refuted all they had come to know and understand about themselves, about black people, and about this country. D’Souza is writing for them, the same kind of [audience](http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,983506,00.html) he has always written for. I don’t see much else to D’Souza’s article other than to get the term “Kenyan anti-imperialist” out there in public discourse. It’s a lying, racist smear job, couched in some sort of pseudo-intellectual pretense. Shame on Forbes for publishing it. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/24 "2010-09-14T00:03:36Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > D’Souza condescendingly [paints](http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0927/politics-socialism-capitalism-private-enterprises-obama-business-problem_print.html) Obama’s father’s concern with, oh, about four centuries of world history, as naive and irrelevant, and even more bizarrely asserts that this has become the “worldview” of the president of the U.S. > [QUOTE=D’Souza] > Colonialism today is a dead issue. No one cares about it except the man in the White House. He is the last anticolonial. Emerging market economies such as China, India, Chile and Indonesia have solved the problem of backwardness; they are exploiting their labor advantage and growing much faster than the U.S. If America is going to remain on top, we have to compete in an increasingly tough environment. In other words, Obama is kind of like one of those pesky, ignorant natives who for some reason are still restless about something that is just oh so passé. And Gingrich, apparently, is [lapping it up](http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/246302/gingrich-obama-s-kenyan-anti-colonial-worldview-robert-costa). [/QUOTE] So you think that Obama’s worldview isn’t significantly shaped by the ‘dreams from his father’? D’Souza is going on Obama’s own writings remember. He didn’t even mention the afrocentrist church he attended for 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/25 "2010-09-14T00:10:55Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > So you think that Obama’s worldview isn’t significantly shaped by the ‘dreams from his father’? Just to make sure we’re all on the same page, you’re talking about the Barack Obama Sr. who was divorced from Mrs. Obama when their son was two, and who saw Barack II only once after that, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/26 "2010-09-14T00:18:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Chen019](#): > > > > So you think that Obama’s worldview isn’t significantly shaped by the ‘dreams from his father’? > > Just to make sure we’re all on the same page, you’re talking about the Barack Obama Sr. who was divorced from Mrs. Obama when their son was two, and who saw Barack II only once after that, correct? Yeah, you might suspect that he would have therefore had little influence, but apparently that isn’t the case (I haven’t read the book, so it’s hard to assess D’Souza’s interpretation). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/27 "2010-09-14T00:20:22Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Yeah, you might suspect that he would have therefore had little influence, but apparently that isn’t the case (I haven’t read the book… You might do a better job with your suppositions if you, um, read the frickin’ book. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/28 "2010-09-14T00:21:22Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > > [@Marley23](#): > > > > Just to make sure we’re all on the same page, you’re talking about the Barack Obama Sr. who was divorced from Mrs. Obama when their son was two, and who saw Barack II only once after that, correct? > > Yeah, you might suspect that he would have therefore had little influence, but apparently that isn’t the case (I haven’t read the book, so it’s hard to assess D’Souza’s interpretation). What do you know that would make you say “apparently that isn’t the case”? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/29 "2010-09-14T00:42:50Z")
They think Obama is a cancer doctor? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/30 "2010-09-14T00:44:53Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > > [@Marley23](#): > > > > Just to make sure we’re all on the same page, you’re talking about the Barack Obama Sr. who was divorced from Mrs. Obama when their son was two, and who saw Barack II only once after that, correct? > > Yeah, you might suspect that he would have therefore had little influence, but apparently that isn’t the case (I haven’t read the book, so it’s hard to assess D’Souza’s interpretation). I’ve read the book, and you’re wrong. And I don’t think there’s anything to this anticolonist charge either. It’s an update on the “blame America first” line of attack. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/31 "2010-09-14T01:05:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Chen019](#): > > > > Yeah, you might suspect that he would have therefore had little influence, but apparently that isn’t the case (I haven’t read the book, so it’s hard to assess D’Souza’s interpretation). > > I’ve read the book, and you’re wrong. And I don’t think there’s anything to this anticolonist charge either. It’s an update on the “blame America first” line of attack. Ok, my understanding was that he was pretty inspired by his dad & tried to learn as much as possible about him. And given his intellectual influences, like Franz Fannon, Alinsky & Jeremiah Wright, how much of a stretch is it that he’d have the kind of anti-colonialist outlook described by D’Souza? Obviously people can have numerous influences & their views evolve over time. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/32 "2010-09-14T01:07:20Z")
I’d like to know what the hell’s wrong with an anticolonialist outlook in the first place? I thought colonialism was bad…paternalistic, racist, etc. How is being anti-paternalist, anti-racist a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/33 "2010-09-14T01:15:19Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Ok, my understanding was that he was pretty inspired by his dad & tried to learn as much as possible about him. You’re still wrong. Nevermind the claptrap about Obama being a radical leftist, this is not the subject of the book. The book is about his youth and his efforts to establish an identity of his own. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/34 "2010-09-14T01:18:16Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’d like to know what the hell’s wrong with an anticolonialist outlook in the first place? I thought colonialism was bad…paternalistic, racist, etc. How is being anti-paternalist, anti-racist a bad thing? It isn’t (except maybe to people who think racism doesn’t exist). But the idea is that Obama is so obsessed with colonialism that he only sees the world with that in mind. I don’t see any evidence for that point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/35 "2010-09-14T01:27:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Chen019](#): > > > > Ok, my understanding was that he was pretty inspired by his dad & tried to learn as much as possible about him. > > You’re still wrong. Nevermind the claptrap about Obama being a radical leftist, this is not the subject of the book. The book is about his youth and his efforts to establish an identity of his own. So you believe that he wasn’t inspired by his dad & didn’t try to learn as much as possible about him? What claptrap are you talking about? The influence of those figures; Wright, Alinsky & Fannon isn’t exactly denied by anyone is it? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/36 "2010-09-14T01:29:18Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’d like to know what the hell’s wrong with an anticolonialist outlook in the first place? I thought colonialism was bad…paternalistic, racist, etc. How is being anti-paternalist, anti-racist a bad thing? Well, if I could steer this back around, it’s the quote in the OP that’s up for debate: Is an “anti-colonialist worldview”–whatever that may be–necessarily incompatible with a competitive economic policy? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/37 "2010-09-14T01:46:45Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > So you believe that he wasn’t inspired by his dad & didn’t try to learn as much as possible about him? Having actually _read_ his book (both of them, actually) I don’t need to have beliefs about its contents. Is he inspired by his father? I don’t see the evidence for any specific intellectual inspiration. His parents divorced when he was about 2 1/2 and he met his father once after that - he visited the family in Hawaii for a week, I think, when the president was 10. I guess you’ve already swallowed the implication that Obama sees his father as a victim of colonialism or a fighter against the imperialism West, and that this was a major influence on his life. In point of fact all of this is completely wrong (but so what? it’s a good yarn!). Obama Sr. is depicted as a very intelligent man with deep flaws, including an inability to get along with people. And to say the least he was a distant father. “Inspiration” can mean a lot of things, but beyond the fact that he was a bright guy who believed in civil service and in working to better yourself, I don’t see it. > [@](#): > > The influence of those figures; Wright, Alinsky & Fannon isn’t exactly denied by anyone is it? You’re the first person I have ever heard assert that Fannon is an influence on Obama. I’ve heard Alinsky mentioned but usually it was in conjunction with comments about William Ayers. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/38 "2010-09-14T01:48:21Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > Thousands of U.S. troops have been based in Germany, Turkey, Japan and South Korea for 50 years or longer. Great; the Germans, Turks, Japanese and Koreans are all better for it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/39 "2010-09-14T01:57:40Z")
The new colonialism doesn’t depend on navies or Marines to do its bidding, thats a bland tradesman’s idea of empire, the modern colonialism operates by investment. It must be remarked in their favor that they are innocent of the savage hypocrisy of their forebears, they don’t claim to be bringing Jesus or civilization to those who dwell in darkness, they are only in it for the money. Even a benign and humane government of a third-world nation, run by intelligent, educated and compassionate men are hard pressed to resist investment colonialism, they know they will end up with the table scraps, but they need the table scraps so desperately. So they swear that their legal system will protect investors, their police and army stand to do what used to be role of colonial troops, to “keep order” and protect stability. And thats a legitimate government. The plutocracies, the tyrannies…lets draw a discreet veil over that, there are some things decent folk should not be directly forced to think about. Suffice to say “worse”. Is this investment colonialism an advance over the Belgian Congo under the rule of Leopold II? Oh, my yes. But its mostly our creature, we of the advanced west, and its nothing to be proud of. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617/40 "2010-09-14T02:11:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re the first person I have ever heard assert that Fannon is an influence on Obama. I’ve heard Alinsky mentioned but usually it was in conjunction with comments about William Ayers. He mentions Fannon briefly in “Dreams”, talking about his college experience and the way he dealt with his fears that he wasn’t “black enough” and too much of a middle class establishment type, but calling Fannon an “influence” is really overstating it, I think. > [@](#): > > To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicano students. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night, in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Franz Fannon, and patriarchy. When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpets or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake, we were resisting bourgeois stifling constraints. We weren’t indifferent or careless or insecure. We were alienated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-anticolonist-says-dsouza-and-now-gingrich/553617.md?page=3)