# Obama is choosing his enemies (Obama v. Limbaugh.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 4, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235 "2009-03-04T03:31:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/41 "2009-03-04T19:14:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Interesting question, but what I asked is why we should believe that the Obama administration is doing an **unusual** or **exceptional** amount of “picking on” people in its public announcements. > > **Sam Stone** made the unsupported claim that Obama is being significantly **more** adversarial than Bush or Clinton. I’m asking for some documentation of that claim. > > Your question (namely, what’s the point of **any** President taking an adversarial stance?) is a valid one, but it’s not the question I’m addressing here. Obama just did it again this morning. I was listening on NPR to the announcement about revamping contracting policies. All in all, not necessarily a bad thing to review from time to time. Although I have to be a little suspicious, since some of the commentary I saw in the papers referred to bringing outsourced work back in-house - presumably to the 50% of the government workforce that is unionized. But let’s drop that for now. Let’s focus on what he said… ‘Defense contractors have been given notice! No more doing things the old way!’. Or something like that. So yet again, another villain. From whom Obama will save us. The enemy is over there! These aren’t foreign countries or competing political parties. These are American citizens and businesses. Was there any need for this type of rhetoric? It could have been a nice, positive thing and instead in turned into another verbal assault on a concocted enemy. And now, the 10s of thousands of defense contractors are added to the 10s of thousands of bankers, 10s of thousands of corporate jet manufacturing employees, Las Vegas employees and others who are wondering ‘What did we do?’ The populism thing might only go so far. It will be interesting to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Burton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Burton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burton)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/42 "2009-03-04T19:28:54Z")
Being an American citizen means what? Some type of entitlement? I think this is what he actually said; “The days of giving defense contractors a blank check are over,” Obama said at an event at the White House. “We need more competition for contracts and more oversight as they are carried out.” Reuters ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/43 "2009-03-04T19:41:34Z")
Gee, am I the only one who remembers **several** members of the Department of Justice, Pentagon staff, and others who were not only singled out by Bush and Cheney for their criticism of the White House, but were also then _ **fired** _? And the Republicans get their collective knickers in a twist when Rahm-bo calls Limbaugh the intellectual leader of conservatism? This whole thing looks just comic sometimes. Is it any wonder people lost faith in the Republican brand? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/44 "2009-03-04T19:58:06Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > But let’s drop that for now. Let’s focus on what he said… > > ‘Defense contractors have been given notice! No more doing things the old way!’. Or something like that. > > So yet again, another villain. From whom Obama will save us. The enemy is over there! These aren’t foreign countries or competing political parties. These are American citizens and businesses. You guys must have glass jaws. This is an attack? There are two parts to this. First, it is pretty clear that the American taxpayer got badly ripped off by contractors in Iraq. I’m working with people in the defense contracting industry, and the waste is amazing. Not from them being crooks, just from the process. Do you deny this? How is saying that a new way is needed anything but common sense? Second, he is asking the American people to get behind a pretty big stimulus package, required by the big banks screwing up. People already see it as a gift to Wall Street - do you think not going hard on the people who made this necessary is going to make getting support easier. Not that he isn’t justified. Same for defense. The government side is responsible also, so I hope you don’t get so upset when he tells the DoD that the old way won’t do also. (Which I trust he will do.) How are you going to attack waste if telling people that waste is no longer tolerated is going to be considered taboo? ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/45 "2009-03-04T20:02:12Z")
> [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](#): > > Gee, am I the only one who remembers **several** members of the Department of Justice, Pentagon staff, and others who were not only singled out by Bush and Cheney for their criticism of the White House, but were also then _ **fired** _? Yes, you are. The last eight years didn’t happen. Didn’t you get the memo? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/46 "2009-03-04T20:35:19Z")
> [@Monster104](#): > > Just as Limbaugh is wrong for tarring all Democrats with his overly broad brush, so are people like **Der Trihs** that seem to do the same thing to Republicans. I don’t see any difference. What’s the size of **Der Trihs** ’s radio audience, again? What’s his sum total influence on the running of a major political party? Feel free to give your answer in the form of a limerick. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/47 "2009-03-04T20:43:53Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > It makes some sense if you look at the partisan Republicans as only a symptom, and the inability to dismiss Limbaugh as just an entertainer as the real problem. Address the polemicist, remove that barrier, and perhaps more Republican politicians will be willing to work together with Democrats. Notice that he’s not going after Coulter; Coulter isn’t so big that Republicans stand to lose a great deal of their base if they dismiss her. I wonder. If Coulter were the one targeted, who would even care? She is so “out there” I could easily imagine Republicans gleefully helping Obama. The same if it were Michelle Malkin, or some other fruitcake. Limbaugh was “selected” simply because people listen to him. He is well known. He seems to enjoy being the center of attention (so give him some). Besides, he likes to make claims and pronouncements all the time, calling people socialists and feminazis etc. Let’s now see how well he can take it himself. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/48 "2009-03-04T20:45:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > A President isn’t supposed to ‘choose enemies’. Obama is doing far too much blaming, too much campaigning, and too much attacking. Bush was savaged far worse than anything Obama has ever had thrown at him, and I can’t recall him ever calling out a critic by name and attacking him. There was that one time (nervous cough) when certain secret stuff was leaked (OK, more than once) in order to discredit or put at risk, someone who was married to someone who had displeased him. So, no “holier than thou” please. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/49 "2009-03-04T20:46:14Z")
Here’s another nice article about the Limbaugh strategy - [“Rush Job: Inside the Dems’ Limbaugh Plan.”](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19596.html) It goes pretty in depth about how the democrats carried this one out. Looks like it was started by the Clinton boys (Begala, Carville, Greenberg and Podesta) and then passed over to Obama’s team. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/50 "2009-03-04T20:52:50Z")
> [@Yumblie](#): > > The difference is, **Der Trihs** isn’t in congress, nor is there anyone in congress falling all over themselves to make sure they don’t appear to disagree with him. > > Can you imagine a left-wing version of Limbaugh having any influence in the democratic party? Anytime someone like that comes up, like, say, Bill Ayers, they’re quick to denounce him. > > Both sides have their nutcases, but the difference is that the republicans have to pander to (or elect) the nutcases whereas the democrats can just ignore theirs. Yes yes, I understand this. It does not invalidate my point. Besides I was not just comparing him to Rush - by extension I was comparing him (just as an available example of a larger group of people) to Rush fans as well. Plenty of Rush’s opponents use the exact same types of flawed reasoning to do the same kind of unproductive attacks on the entire opposing party as Rush and his followers. Is that better? > [@Merijeek](#): > > What’s the size of **Der Trihs** ’s radio audience, again? What’s his sum total influence on the running of a major political party? > > Feel free to give your answer in the form of a limerick. > > -Joe See above. Also, **Der Trihs** was expressing what he thinks Obama should be doing - it seems to me that he thinks Obama should essentially adopt Rush’s tactics; a “fight fire with fire” type of mentality. I daresay Obama is just as or more influential on the Democratic party as Rush is on the Republican party, and if he did adopt Rush’s tactics like I believe **Der Trihs** is advocating…well then, my point would then apply to Obama as well. But I don’t think Obama operates that way, and so I’m left with pointing out hypocrisy that really does occur. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/51 "2009-03-04T20:56:33Z")
> [@Monster104](#): > > Yes yes, I understand this. It does not invalidate my point. Besides I was not just comparing him to Rush - by extension I was comparing him (just as an available example of a larger group of people) to Rush fans as well. Plenty of Rush’s opponents use the exact same types of flawed reasoning to do the same kind of unproductive attacks on the entire opposing party as Rush and his followers. > > Is that better? > See above. Also, **Der Trihs** was expressing what he thinks Obama should be doing - it seems to me that he thinks Obama should essentially adopt Rush’s tactics; a “fight fire with fire” type of mentality. I daresay Obama is more influential on the Democratic party than Rush is on the Republican party, and if he did adopt Rush’s tactics like I believe **Der Trihs** is advocating…well then, my point would then apply to Obama as well. Let’s look at it this way. Rush is well known. Love him or hate him, you have to admit he knows how to talk, how to argue (when he wants to). So, if any of this does happen, we all get to watch what promises to be great entertainment. We might even be able to turn it into a good old Doper Drinking Game. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/52 "2009-03-04T21:02:28Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Yes, you are. The last eight years didn’t happen. Didn’t you get the memo? Darn, I must not have gotten it. Maybe it’s one of the secret legal memos being leaked later this month? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/53 "2009-03-04T21:02:52Z")
> [@Monster104](#): > > See above. Also, **Der Trihs** was expressing what he thinks Obama should be doing - it seems to me that he thinks Obama should essentially adopt Rush’s tactics; a “fight fire with fire” type of mentality. I daresay Obama is just as or more influential on the Democratic party as Rush is on the Republican party, and if he did adopt Rush’s tactics like I believe **Der Trihs** is advocating…well then, my point would then apply to Obama as well. > > But I don’t think Obama operates that way, and so I’m left with pointing out hypocrisy that really does occur. Hah. Obama should instead follow the Kerry/Reid path of just bending over? No thanks. I’ll take someone who fights, thank you very much. Oh, and Obama should be ‘just as or more influential’ than Limbaugh is. He was chosen by the Democratic voters to be their nominee, and he was chosen by the country in general to be the President of the United States. The fact that you could even compare their infulence says how fucked up the “conservatives” in this country really are. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/54 "2009-03-04T21:09:40Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I’ll take someone who fights, thank you very much. This. I like watching a decent fight anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/55 "2009-03-04T21:22:37Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > So yet again, another villain. From whom Obama will save us. The enemy is over there! These aren’t foreign countries or competing political parties. These are American citizens and businesses. > > Was there any need for this type of rhetoric? It could have been a nice, positive thing and instead in turned into another verbal assault on a concocted enemy. And now, the 10s of thousands of defense contractors are added to the 10s of thousands of bankers, 10s of thousands of corporate jet manufacturing employees, Las Vegas employees and others who are wondering ‘What did we do?’ > > The populism thing might only go so far. It will be interesting to watch. I live in Las Vegas, and no one that I know or know of is wondering “what did we do?”. Rather, we’re saying “fuck yeah, don’t waste that damn bailout money by holding a corporate retreat at the Bellagio for the hundred highest paid execs in your company… do something useful, you idiots!”. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/56 "2009-03-04T21:50:59Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > But let’s drop that for now. Let’s focus on what he said… > > ‘Defense contractors have been given notice! No more doing things the old way!’. Or something like that. > > So yet again, another villain. From whom Obama will save us. The enemy is over there! These aren’t foreign countries or competing political parties. These are American citizens and businesses. > [@Burton](#): > > I think this is what he actually said; “The days of giving defense contractors a blank check are over,” Obama said at an event at the White House. “We need more competition for contracts and more oversight as they are carried out.” As **Burton** and **Voyager** pointed out: is this really what you call unfairly “picking on” people? Seems pretty mild as criticism goes. (And note that it doesn’t even accuse defense contractors **themselves** of doing anything wrong: rather, it’s a criticism of the prior administration’s **government policy** concerning the bidding and oversight for government contracts.) How is this in any way any worse than the sort of generalized predecessor-bashing that Bush was doing at this stage of his administration [back in March 2001](http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2001/03/20010327-5.html)? > [@George W. Bush](#): > > And that’s the fundamental debate in Washington, D.C. If you listen carefully, the people up there will use every excuse in the book to increase the baselines of government. […] > > It begins by working on changing the culture of the Nation’s Capital, and I think we’re making good progress. There’s a culture of responsibility beginning to become a part of our Nation’s Capital that each of us understand if we’re given the awesome tasks that we’re responsible for upholding the offices we hold. [😕] There’s a culture of respect beginning to take hold in the Nation’s Capital, where good people can disagree, but on respectful terms. So I’m still waiting for credible indications that the Obama administration is actually being significantly more confrontational and hostile than the usual “we’re the new brooms and we’re gonna sweep clean” rhetoric typical of a new administration. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/57 "2009-03-04T22:12:59Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > He’s a loud mouth self appointed flag bearer of the Conservative cause who has no power, yes, but apparently the Republican party feels they have to appease this man with no power, that is what makes addressing him relevant. He obviously has power if the Republicans feel the need to appease him - that IS power. And the Right has treated him as their spokesman for a long time; it’s his show that conservative bosses force their employees to listen to on the job, for example. Like Fox News, he’s part of the right wing propaganda machine, not just some random guy with a loud mouth. > [@Monster104](#): > > [QUOTE=Der Trihs] > Oh, please. The Republicans ARE his enemy, and are far more interested in seeing him fail than in the welfare of the country. Funnily enough, this is basically channeling the same exact crap that Rush Limbaugh spews - to summarize: “Democrats are our _enemy_, Democrats are more interested in pushing their socialist agendas than they are in the success of the country! Bipartisanship is impossible with our enemies the Democrats, so we will do what we can to smear and attack them to take back the country!” [/QUOTE] The difference is that Limbaugh’s version is wrong, and mine is right. The Democrats are typically bipartisan compromises to the point of self destructiveness. Nor are they socialist. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > In the past Dems have tried to play the “I am above all this stupidity” game and it hasn’t worked (notably the Swift Boating of Kerry). As mentioned such a policy has allowed the rot that is Limbaugh (among others) to work in the background. I think turning the spotlight on them is brilliant. Don’t let them live in the shadows chewing away at our society. Exactly. The Democrats have been trying to act all reasonable and bipartisan and relying on “the truth will out” for far too long, and the result has been over twenty years of dominance by the Right. > [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > But let’s drop that for now. Let’s focus on what he said… > > ‘Defense contractors have been given notice! No more doing things the old way!’. Or something like that. > > So yet again, another villain. From whom Obama will save us. The enemy is over there! These aren’t foreign countries or competing political parties. These are American citizens and businesses. Which doesn’t keep them from being enemies, or just destructive fools. Americas most important problems are right here, not “over there”. It’s the people who keep pointing fingers at foreigners who are trying to divert attention from the real problems. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/58 "2009-03-04T22:33:27Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Hah. Obama should instead follow the Kerry/Reid path of just bending over? No thanks. I’ll take someone who fights, thank you very much. I had serious doubts about that back in the primaries, sure - but no longer. The guy clearly does know where to stick the shiv as well as anybody. Or at least he knows how to get others to do it for him while he looks clean, and that’s an even more useful skill. Even if they’re from the camp of the hated Clintons. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/59 "2009-03-04T23:43:32Z")
Heck, Obama’s from Illinois. He could just have Limbaugh whacked. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235/60 "2009-03-04T23:50:05Z")
[Rush appears to have thrown down the gauntlet today.](http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/03/rush-to-potus-b.html) I can’t see how this will work to Rush’s advantage. The POTUS isn’t some scrub that needs to cater to his whims (like the Republican politicians have done). I expect that he’ll declare victory no matter what happens tho. He’s a delusional megalomaniac after all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-choosing-his-enemies-obama-v-limbaugh/488235.md?page=4)