# Obama is killing too many terrorists!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 20, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810 "2010-02-20T21:58:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/1 "2010-02-20T21:58:25Z")
Hysterical, teabagger, right wing Obama bashing appears to have circled the space/time continuum and is now coming right back at itself. A couple of weeks ago, Mark Thiessen, a former Bush speech writer and Washington Post columnist wrote [this piece](http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/08/dead_terrorists_tell_no_tales) for _Foreign Policy_ in which he compalins that Barack Obama has been too effective at killing terrorists with drone attacks in Afghanistan and Pakistan: > [@](#): > > The CIA reportedly succeeded in killing the head of the Pakistani Taliban – the most recent in a flurry of drone attacks the agency has launched in South Asia and the Middle East. Another strike in Pakistan reportedly took out one of the FBI’s most wanted terrorists; another in Pakistan took out a master bomb-maker for the al Qaeda affiliate in the Philippines, Abu Sayyaf; and a strike in Yemen targeted a senior military leader of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the group behind the Christmas Day attack (his fate has yet to be determined). > President Barack Obama’s escalation of drone strikes is one area in the counterterrorism fight where he has earned plaudits from even his most vocal critics on the right. Hold the applause. Obama’s escalation of the “Predator War” comes at the very same time he has eliminated the CIA’s capability to capture senior terrorist leaders alive and interrogate them for information on new attacks. > > \ > > The problem is that Obama is increasingly using drone strikes as a substitute for operations to bring terrorist leaders in alive for questioning – and that is putting the country at risk. As one high-ranking CIA official explained to me, in an interview for my book Courting Disaster, “In the wake of 9/11, [the CIA] put forward a program that had a lethal component to strike back at the people who did this. But the other component was to prevent this kind of catastrophe from happening again. And for that, killing people – especially killing senior al Qaeda leaders – is potentially counterproductive in that we can’t know or learn of future attacks. You can’t kill them all, and you don’t want to kill them all from an intelligence standpoint. We needed to know what they knew.” So there you have it. Barack Obama is putting America at risk by killing too many high ranking _al Qaeda_ leaders. This surreal level of straw grasping was echoed at the [CPAC conference](http://indyposted.com/11592/barack-obama-killing-terrorists/) on friday by a former Bush Justice Department lawyer, and co-author of the PATRIOT Act, Viet Dinh: > [@](#): > > During a speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference on Friday a lawyer from the Bush administration’s Department of Justice said he was concerned by the number of terrorists the U.S. was killing, a move he believed was hurting U.S. intelligence operations. > > Viet Dinh then complained that by killing large groups of terrorists the U.S. is losing it’s ability to gain intelligence about terrorist communities. > > Dinh added: > > ``` > “…We have every right to kill the other side’s warriors. But at what cost? When we do not have an effective detention policy the only option we have is to kill them before we can detain them. And if we don’t detain them, we don’t know what they know and what they are up to.” > > ``` Obama is making America unsafe by being too tough on terrorists. This is bizarro land. Are they going to accuse of of being too fiscally responsible next? Too intelligent? Too good a family man? They’re running out of shit to say, aren’t they? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/2 "2010-02-20T22:07:53Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > …They’re running out of shit to say, aren’t they? From your lips to the Ears… ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/3 "2010-02-20T22:12:48Z")
Man, get it through your head. The GOP has taken hypocrisy to levels that were previously unimagined. These assholes would take a dump on the American flag while fellating Bin Laden if they thought it would make a point about how evil Obama is. ---
**Author:** ![kenner116](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecb155/32.png) [@kenner116](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenner116)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/4 "2010-02-20T22:21:26Z")
Meh, I kind of agree with them on this point. I’d prefer to end the drone attacks completely and put more resources toward catching al-Qaeda leaders alive. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/5 "2010-02-20T22:26:19Z")
> [@kenner116](#): > > Meh, I kind of agree with them on this point. I’d prefer to end the drone attacks completely and put more resources toward catching al-Qaeda leaders alive. I think all reality-based persons recognize this. The point, however, is that this is the exact opposite of what the GOP has been on about for the past 9 years–namely, killing terrorists instead of prosecuting them, using military tribunals instead of civilian courts, giving the FBI/CIA/NSA unprecedented wiretapping powers, etc. All while shrieking about how librul hippies are soft on terror or cozy with al-Qaeda. And they’re still assailing Obama with such rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/6 "2010-02-20T22:29:36Z")
“More resources” = more American lives. These targets are in remote areas where it would be difficult to catch them alive. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/7 "2010-02-20T22:35:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > “More resources” = more American lives. > > These targets are in remote areas where it would be difficult to catch them alive. Yeah, but come on, **Dio**. Of course, the Pubs are bereft of any principles, but in the broader context, the war on terrorism is bullshit and it should comprised of police actions and coordination with local governments rather than assassinations and military operations. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/8 "2010-02-20T22:41:03Z")
> [@](#): > > "But at what cost? When we do not have an effective detention policy the only option we have is to kill them before we can detain them. And if we don’t detain them, we don’t know what they know and what they are up to.” If they’re dead, I’ll bet I know what they’re up to. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/9 "2010-02-20T22:56:48Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > If they’re dead, I’ll bet I know what they’re up to. Yup. It’s been a few years, but I’d still like to see bin Laden’s plate on a platter. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/10 "2010-02-20T23:17:48Z")
There’s literally nothing Obama can do to please the right wing. He could walk on water, and they’d complain he’s a bad swimmer. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/11 "2010-02-20T23:44:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Hysterical, teabagger, right wing Obama bashing appears to have circled the space/time continuum and is now coming right back at itself. > > A couple of weeks ago, Mark Thiessen, a former Bush speech writer and Washington Post columnist wrote [this piece](http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/08/dead_terrorists_tell_no_tales) for _Foreign Policy_ in which\*\* he compalins that Barack Obama has been too effective at killing terrorists \*\*with drone attacks in Afghanistan and Pakistan: > So there you have it. Barack Obama is putting America at risk by killing too many high ranking _al Qaeda_ leaders. > > This surreal level of straw grasping was echoed at the [CPAC conference](http://indyposted.com/11592/barack-obama-killing-terrorists/) on friday by a former Bush Justice Department lawyer, and co-author of the PATRIOT Act, Viet Dinh: > > \*\*Obama is making America unsafe by being too tough on terrorists. \*\*This is bizarro land. Are they going to accuse of of being too fiscally responsible next? Too intelligent? Too good a family man? > > They’re running out of shit to say, aren’t they? Dio, despite the fact that you are a complete dumbass, you are a reasonably intelligent guy. So, it seems odd to me that you are missing the point of what these people are saying. They are arguing that it would be better to attempt to capture terrorists alive rather than to kill them with no chance of capturing them alive. Therefore, they are saying it is a bad thing that Obama is simply killing them with drones rather than attempting to capture them alive. I don’t know anything about the merits of this argument (I hadn’t even heard it until opening this thread). But it is different than simply complaining that Obama is killing too many terrorists (as opposed to simply not killing them or capturing them), which is what you are claiming. Anyway, I’m sure those few who would agree with the OP and who don’t have me on their ignore list have not read this far down in this post, so enjoy the inevitable circle jerk this thread will become. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/12 "2010-02-21T00:02:19Z")
I have oddest sensation of sudden absence, like someone just left the room, or simply ceased to exist… ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/13 "2010-02-21T00:10:45Z")
If I understand Thiessen’s motives correctly, it’s no fun torturing a dead man. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/14 "2010-02-21T00:29:12Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > …so enjoy the inevitable circle jerk this thread will become. You should make this claim in as many threads as you can. It’s endearing, you cute little troll. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/15 "2010-02-21T00:40:14Z")
Also by Marc Thiessen: > [@](#): > > **A Charge Kept : The Record of the Bush Presidency 2001 - 2009** > by George W Bush, Marc A Thiessen (Editor) > > “We have served America through one of the most consequential periods of our history…” President George W. Bush, 2006 State of the Union [Paperback, cheap](http://search.barnesandnoble.com/A-Charge-Kept/George-W-Bush/e/9781600375897/?itm=3) - Sales Rank: 448,950 No one’s even bothered to write a review of it at Barnes & Noble or [at Amazon.](http://www.amazon.com/Charge-Kept-Record-Bush-Presidency/dp/1600375898) ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/16 "2010-02-21T01:02:04Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > You should make this claim in as many threads as you can. Hmm, pretty sure I already do. > [@](#): > > It’s endearing, you cute little troll. Aw, thanks, that’s sweet of you to say. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/17 "2010-02-21T01:21:47Z")
I think the irony about the whole thing is that Obama hasn’t really done anything in afghanistan yet that bush wasn’t likely to do. I’m not critisizing obama: you can’t do big U-turns in the middle of a warzone. w.r.t. the drones specifically, I’m sure that bush would have ramped up their usage too. They’ve been very useful in this campaign and they are becoming increasingly accurate and sophisticated. Couple this with the specific strategic factors of this war (e.g. porous border, that we can’t get near) and more UAVs makes a lot of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/18 "2010-02-21T01:22:27Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Dio, despite the fact that you are a complete dumbass, you are a reasonably intelligent guy. So, it seems odd to me that you are missing the point of what these people are saying. They are arguing that it would be better to attempt to capture terrorists alive rather than to kill them with no chance of capturing them alive. Therefore, they are saying it is a bad thing that Obama is simply killing them with drones rather than attempting to capture them alive. Why are they making this argument now? In this respect, Obama is simply continuing with the plan and methodology of the Bush administration. People didn’t seem to have a problem when Abu Hamza Rabia, Al-Qaeda’s so-called “number 3” or Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, a one-time leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq, were killed in drone attacks in 2005 and 2006 rather than captured. At least for Al Qaeda and Taliban in Pakistan, capturing them requires the consent and active assistance of Pakistani intelligence and military. Except for the final months of 2001 (and even then, this was two-faced), they did not provide anywhere near the required level of assistance. It has only been very recently that there seems to be the possibility that this will change. With the drone attacks, even though Pakistan is likely giving some intelligence and quiet approval, Pakistan has plausible deniability that they authorized any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/19 "2010-02-21T01:23:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > So there you have it. Barack Obama is putting America at risk by killing too many high ranking _al Qaeda_ leaders. I’m giving Obama a pass on this one , as I doubt that there are any real good oppurtunities to pick up a live AL Q agent and put em through the strainer. Since Pakistan is flakey about actually living up to commitments, albeit they may have good reasons, tagging terrorists with drone strikes is the best that can be done. Since the CIA has been carrying out its vendetta for those officers that were killed, there will be a bathtub shaped program, where the top generals have been killed, and the lower grunt privates are killed, but we dont know who the majors and colonels are that will step into their place. Simply plucking the weeds, but not clearing out the roots basically. Declan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/20 "2010-02-21T01:29:47Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > w.r.t. the drones specifically, I’m sure that bush would have ramped up their usage too. They’ve been very useful in this campaign and they are becoming increasingly accurate and sophisticated. > Couple this with the specific strategic factors of this war (e.g. porous border, that we can’t get near) and more UAVs makes a lot of sense. Probably. And it wasn’t like Bush was making any significant captures in Pakistan. The guy in the article linked to in the OP is just stretching logic to a ridiculous limit. Sure, in some perfect world that might be a great strategy, but Pakistan ain’t no perfect world. (Not that I’m a fan of the drone attacks, but it’s nutty to think we could capture many people in that area.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810.md?page=2)