# Obama is killing too many terrorists!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 20, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810 "2010-02-20T21:58:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/61 "2010-02-22T03:09:25Z")
So, what, we look for the little name tag over his pocket? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/62 "2010-02-22T03:16:36Z")
I’m not sure what you mean. Are you saying we have no way of knowing who any of the higher ups are? We just captured one last week, and I don’t think he was wearing a name tag. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/63 "2010-02-22T03:22:27Z")
Same difference. Whatever he knew is compromised, react accordingly. It’s what you would do, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/64 "2010-02-22T03:29:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Same difference. Whatever he knew is compromised, react accordingly. It’s what you would do, isn’t it? With all due respect, that is an absurd over-simplification. He could name names, locations, plans. And you can’t take a nose count every day, especially if you are trying to maintain isolated cells. Note that we didn’t announce the capture of that guy for at least several days. But even if you were correct, there would be a lot of value in making AQ re-writer their entire playbook every month or so. Make them scrap all the old plans, relocated everyone, etc. Sounds like an excellent plan to me. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/65 "2010-02-22T03:32:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean. Are you saying we have no way of knowing who any of the higher ups are? We just captured one last week, and I don’t think he was wearing a name tag. [‘Lucky accident’ led to arrest of Taliban No. 2](http://www.theage.com.au/world/lucky-accident-led-to-arrest-of-taliban-no-2-20100219-olwu.html) > [@](#): > > When Pakistani security officers raided a house outside Karachi in late January, they had no idea that they had just made their most important capture in years. > > US intelligence agencies had intercepted communications saying militants with a possible link to the Taliban’s top military commander, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, were meeting. Tipped off by the Americans, Pakistani counterterrorist officers took several men into custody, meeting no resistance. > > Only after a careful process of identification did Pakistani and US officials realise they had captured Mullah Baradar himself, the man who has long overseen the Taliban insurgency against US, NATO and Afghan troops. Stop killing terrorists while we wait and pray for another lucky accident? That sounds like an iffier approach than just killing them as we find them. It’s not as if the torture these Republicans are advocating the US continue using on these guys has ever been shown to be effective. David Petreaus said it nicely today: > [@](#): > > The general also reiterated his strong opposition to using torture to gain information from important captives like Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, the Taliban’s top military commander, who was seized recently in Pakistan. > > “Whenever we have, perhaps, taken expedient measures, they have turned around and bitten us in the backside,” he said. Whenever Americans have used methods that violate the Geneva Conventions or the standards of the International Committee of the Red Cross, he said: “We end up paying a price for it ultimately. Abu Ghraib and other situations like that are non-biodegradable. They don’t go away. The enemy continues to beat you with them like a stick.” [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/22/world/asia/22petraeus.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/22/world/asia/22petraeus.html) ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/66 "2010-02-22T03:56:52Z")
Exactly. Morality aside–and it’s a telling sign when we can’t stop right there in an argument–our use of torture is al-Qaeda’s single greatest recruiting tool. Bin Laden must have thought Abu Ghraib a gift from Allah, as it was the perfect hat trick of violence, sexual depravity, and cultural oppression. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/67 "2010-02-22T04:29:08Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [‘Lucky accident’ led to arrest of Taliban No. 2](http://www.theage.com.au/world/lucky-accident-led-to-arrest-of-taliban-no-2-20100219-olwu.html)Stop killing terrorists while we wait and pray for another lucky accident? That sounds like an iffier approach than just killing them as we find them. > It’s not as if the torture these Republicans are advocating the US continue using on these guys has ever been shown to be effective. David Petreaus said it nicely today: > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/22/world/asia/22petraeus.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/22/world/asia/22petraeus.html) Where did I say we should “Stop killing terrorists while we wait and pray for another lucky accident”? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/68 "2010-02-22T04:46:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Where did I say we should “Stop killing terrorists while we wait and pray for another lucky accident”? Well, did we kill that number two which lucky accident brought to us? I thought not. Yup, no morons in _this_ administration. There’s no need for kibbitzing, especially from those same Republicans who abandoned Afghanistan in a vain search for glory in Iraq. Obama is working to clean up _their_ mess, and it’s going to be _hard_ in a way GWB never experienced. The pubs need to STFU and let him do this job. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/69 "2010-02-22T06:43:09Z")
The idea that you can kill the leaders and end terrorism is absurd. If one of our generals get killed ,we trot out a new one. Same for them. There are plenty of people who would step up. I get so sick of hearing we killed the number 2 leader. No. 3 is waiting for his chance. No 4 is watching eagerly. Osama may have been dead for a long time. It does not matter. The Taliban fights on. This is the military wet dream. a war that lasts forever and is nearly impossible to lose. They can always say they kept America from being attacked, whether they did or not. Who would know? Obama is not helping. He is just coontiniuing a process that will not fix a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/70 "2010-02-22T08:46:21Z")
I think the problem with the right is that seem to think that **Rambo** was a documentary. As for circle jerks - I love Jamaican food. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/71 "2010-02-22T11:02:18Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The idea that you can kill the leaders and end terrorism is absurd. If one of our generals get killed ,we trot out a new one. Same for them. There are plenty of people who would step up. I get so sick of hearing we killed the number 2 leader. No. 3 is waiting for his chance. No 4 is watching eagerly. Osama may have been dead for a long time. It does not matter. The Taliban fights on. This is the military wet dream. a war that lasts forever and is nearly impossible to lose. They can always say they kept America from being attacked, whether they did or not. Who would know? > Obama is not helping. He is just coontiniuing a process that will not fix a thing. When it comes to the Taliban, the current idea is to keep killing enough leaders so that the ones who replace them 1) are less competent, experienced and knowledgeable in military planning than their predecessors and 2) are more willing to come to terms. Believe it or not, most of the military - particularly the generals - aren’t a bunch of male teenage war-gamers who are jonesing for more 'splosions. They understand the U.S. military is over-stretched right now. By far, the military doesn’t love war, they just love preparing for war. The Cold War (at least the European, Korean, and Japanese theaters) was a perfect example. Little to no fighting and yet buckets of money thrown their way. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/72 "2010-02-22T14:37:24Z")
[Afghan police say Tora Bora commander killed](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100222/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan) > [@](#): > > Police say a suicide bomber has killed 15 people in eastern Afghanistan, including a key tribal leader who played a major role in a failed attempt to capture al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden at Tora Bora in 2001. > > Police Gen. Mohammad Ayub Salangi says the bomber set off his explosives in Khogyani district next to a small group of tribal elders and government workers as they were meeting Monday with a few hundred Afghan refugees who had recently returned from Pakistan. I think we can _all_ agree that the Taliban pulled a real boner here. Instead of just killing the guy they should have captured him, and tortured him in order to obtain actionable intelligence. What a bunch of bone-heads! Their foolish death-strategery will never work. All they are doing is assuring their own destruction. Their acts make a travesty of good armchair war-fighting skillz. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/73 "2010-02-22T15:28:40Z")
> [@Article Quoted in OP](#): > > Obama’s escalation of the “Predator War” comes at the very same time he has eliminated the CIA’s capability to capture senior terrorist leaders alive and interrogate them for information on new attacks. > > \ > > And for that, killing people – especially killing senior al Qaeda leaders – is potentially counterproductive in that we can’t know or learn of future attacks. You can’t kill them all, and you don’t want to kill them all from an intelligence standpoint. We needed to know what they knew." Can anybody who agrees with this please offer a cite showing that _any_ useful information has _ever_ been extracted from a captured terrorist? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/74 "2010-02-22T15:31:55Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I think we can _all_ agree that the Taliban pulled a real boner here. I think we should make like the Joker and show that we can pull off bigger boners than the Taliban ever imagined! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/75 "2010-02-22T16:17:23Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Can anybody who agrees with this please offer a cite showing that _any_ useful information has _ever_ been extracted from a captured terrorist? I think that’s an unreasonable request, as any such information isn’t going to be released to the public, at least not for some time. The Bush administration claimed they got useful info from KSM, and the Obama information is claiming we’re getting all sorts of info from the Underwear Bomber. But I don’t think we know what that info is, so we have to take their word(s) for it. Unless you think both Bush and Obama are lying… which may very well be the case if they want the other terrorists to think we’re getting info even if we didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/76 "2010-02-22T16:34:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t think we know what that info is, so we have to take their word(s) for it… We do not have to take the word of a former Bush speechwriter, who is probably angling for a job at the presidential library, for it. If they want their sniping to be taken seriously, Republicans should employ a sniper with a made reputation, such as Dick Cheney. This “the former minor image polisher says…” stuff is really penny-ante. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/77 "2010-02-22T16:46:29Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The idea that you can kill the leaders and end terrorism is absurd. If one of our generals get killed ,we trot out a new one. Same for them. There are plenty of people who would step up. I get so sick of hearing we killed the number 2 leader. No. 3 is waiting for his chance. No 4 is watching eagerly. Sadly, if we’d killed two more of their leaders, Al Haig would have been in charge. Too late now… ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/78 "2010-02-22T16:59:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Sadly, if we’d killed two more of their leaders, Al Haig would have been in charge. Too late now… It was Fritz Kraemer in charge anyway. Just few knew it. ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/79 "2010-02-22T17:30:19Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/transcrime/articles/Bush%20Has%20Widened%20Authority%20of%20C\_I\_A\_%20to%20Kill%20Terrorists.htm](http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/transcrime/articles/Bush%20Has%20Widened%20Authority%20of%20C_I_A_%20to%20Kill%20Terrorists.htm) Bush authorized the CIA to kill terrorists. He wanted them dead. That was good. Obama is actually killing them. That is bad. We all know pretending you can capture them and then extract good information is easier said than accomplished. > The whole argument is ridiculous. We are creating terrorists at a rate faster than we can kill them anyway. Even packing up and going home wont make us safe. To assume that those whose family has been killed by America will just forget about it when we leave is a dream. Bush’s mess will haunt us for years to come. Who gives a shit? They have been blaming us since before I was born. Death to America! and all that. As soon as they start looking at their own wretched countries/government and maybe see that all of their woes aren’t because of Amerika the better. In the mean time, bomb the crap out of them. As for two Republicans bleating about this? OMFG the world is surely coming to an end. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/80 "2010-02-22T17:35:39Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > We do not have to take the word of a former Bush speechwriter, who is probably angling for a job at the presidential library, for it. > If they want their sniping to be taken seriously, Republicans should employ a sniper with a made reputation, such as Dick Cheney. > This “the former minor image polisher says…” stuff is really penny-ante. I’m not following you. It wasn’t only a former Bush speech writer who said we got info from KSM. Cheney is on record, too, as well as other former administration officials. At any rate, forget about Bush altogether since too many people on this MB can discuss anything Bush related rationally. Obama’s administration is claiming we are getting valuable info from the Underwear Bomber. That answer’s that poster’s question w/o reference to Bush. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810.md?page=5)