# Obama is killing too many terrorists!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 20, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810 "2010-02-20T21:58:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/81 "2010-02-22T18:52:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > At any rate, forget about Bush altogether since too many people on this MB… This is a convenient excuse. How can we forget about Bush altogether, when his minions keep on bringing up crap such as this to toss at Obama? These guys don’t deserve a free pass because there’s too much “Bush Bashing” any more than people should avoid calling them on their shit because **John Mace** might err and take it personally. [QUOTE=John Mace] Where did I say we should “Stop killing terrorists while we wait and pray for another lucky accident”? [/QUOTE] Sure, a high-minded discussion of the the proper guiding principles for TWAT might provide a refreshing change of pace, but we also know that that’s not what the Republicans are attempting to engage in here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/82 "2010-02-22T18:55:55Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > This is a convenient excuse. How can we forget about Bush altogether, when his minions keep on bringing up crap such as this to toss at Obama? > These guys don’t deserve a free pass because there’s too much “Bush Bashing” any more than people should avoid calling them on their shit because **John Mace** might err and take it personally. Oh for crying out loud. For the sake of answering that one question posted above (#73), let’s forget about the Bush administration since we can use evidence from the Obama administration. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/83 "2010-02-22T19:35:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m not following you. It wasn’t only a former Bush speech writer who said we got info from KSM. Cheney is on record, too, as well as other former administration officials. [Cheney lied](http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/26/report-reveals-cheney-misled/). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/84 "2010-02-22T20:06:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [Cheney lied](http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/26/report-reveals-cheney-misled/). Whether or not Cheney lied about how we got the intelligence info is irrelevant wrt whether we got the intel. I was addressing the question, in post #73, as to whether or not we have ever gotten intel from captured terrorists. Here, I’ll quote it again so you don’t have scroll all the way up to that post. That might hard to be do with your knee jerking so violently at the mere mention of Cheney’s name: > [@Wheelz](#): > > Can anybody who agrees with this please offer a cite showing that any useful information has ever been extracted from a captured terrorist? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/85 "2010-02-22T20:18:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [Cheney lied](http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/26/report-reveals-cheney-misled/). That article doesn’t demonstrate that “Cheney lied.” It only says that the released reports (a subset of all the reports) are not specific enough to determine whether the information was obtained after the enhanced interrogation techniques were applied (however, that conclusion is “implicit” in the released reports). Therefore, the only liar here is Dio. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/86 "2010-02-22T20:44:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Whether or not Cheney lied about how we got the intelligence info is irrelevant wrt whether we got the intel. I was addressing the question, in post #73, as to whether or not we have ever gotten intel from captured terrorists. I’m not even sure what you’re railing against. There’s pretty much no way that we’ve \*never \*gotten valid information from a captured terrorist, whether it was Cheney torturing his children in front of him or me making mean faces at him. What does the answer prove? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/87 "2010-02-22T20:58:46Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > That article doesn’t demonstrate that “Cheney lied.” It only says that the released reports (a subset of all the reports) are not specific enough to determine whether the information was obtained after the enhanced interrogation techniques were applied (however, that conclusion is “implicit” in the released reports). > > Therefore, the only liar here is Dio. No, you are now lying. The article says more than that, and does more than just demonstrate that Cheney lied: it uses his own words and shows how they contradict factual information. > [@](#): > > Since Monday, when the CIA released a significant part of those documents — a 2004 CIA inspector general’s report on torture practices — there has been hardly a mention in the mainstream press about **the fact that the report largely contradicted what the former vice president has been saying in public**. Not specific enough? > [@](#): > > Cheney’s efforts to paint the torture program as being professionally run and closely supervised run into problems in light of the report. > > In February of 2008, Cheney told a meeting of the Conservative Political Action Committee: “The procedures of the CIA program are designed to be safe, and they are in full compliance with the nation’s laws and treaty obligations. They’ve been carefully reviewed by the Department of Justice, and very carefully monitored. The program is run by highly trained professionals who understand their obligations under the law.” > > He had used almost the exact same words in a speech at the Heritage Foundation a month earlier. > > “The procedures of the CIA program are designed to be safe,” Cheney told the conservative group. “They are in full compliance with the nation’s laws and treaty obligations. They’ve been carefully reviewed by the Department of Justice, and they are very carefully monitored. The program is run by highly trained professionals who understand their obligations under the law. And the program has uncovered a wealth of information that has foiled attacks against the United States; information that has saved countless, innocent lives.” > > Yet some of those “highly trained professionals” had little more than two weeks of training on the job. So Cheney’s characterization was a lie. > [@](#): > > Nor, would it seem, was the program “carefully monitored.” At the FirstRead blog, NBC’s Brian Williams reported: > > In late December 2002 or early January 2003, the report says, unauthorized techniques were used on an al Qaeda suspect, Abd al Rahim al Nashiri. An American, who was not a trained interrogator and was not authorized to use enhanced methods, used a gun and a power drill to frighten al Nashiri. The gun was held close to his head and “racked,” to produce the sound of a round being loaded into the gun’s chamber. The power drill was revved while the detainee stood, naked with a hood over his head. So his description of the program itself was a lie. It seems that we have one liar here, on the board, and another who used to be our vice-president. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/88 "2010-02-22T21:16:50Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The idea that you can kill the leaders and end terrorism is absurd. If one of our generals get killed ,we trot out a new one. Same for them. There are plenty of people who would step up. I get so sick of hearing we killed the number 2 leader. No. 3 is waiting for his chance. No 4 is watching eagerly. Osama may have been dead for a long time. It does not matter. The Taliban fights on. This is the military wet dream. a war that lasts forever and is nearly impossible to lose. They can always say they kept America from being attacked, whether they did or not. Who would know? > Obama is not helping. He is just coontiniuing a process that will not fix a thing. But things 2, 3 and 4 weren’t number one for a reason. Kill enough of them and you’ll wind up with leaders as stupid and Bush and Rummy, and then we’ll be in good shape. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/89 "2010-02-22T21:58:40Z")
Bo, I was responding only to Dio’s claim that that article demonstrates that Cheney lied about whether enhanced interrogation techniques yielded useful intel. Therefore, whether Cheney lied on other issues has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/90 "2010-02-22T22:02:32Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I’m not even sure what you’re railing against. There’s pretty much no way that we’ve \*never \*gotten valid information from a captured terrorist, whether it was Cheney torturing his children in front of him or me making mean faces at him. What does the answer prove? Dude, why are you jumping in the middle of their debate just to move the goalposts? John was only countering a poster’s assertion that capturing a terrorist has never yielded useful intel. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/91 "2010-02-22T22:36:04Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Dude, why are you jumping in the middle of their debate just to move the goalposts? John was only countering a poster’s assertion that capturing a terrorist has never yielded useful intel. That’s it. To be 100% clear, the poster didn’t assert that, although the assertion was implicit in the question that poster asked. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/92 "2010-02-22T22:51:56Z")
We’ve never obtained any useful information through waterboarding. All the useful information we’ve gotten has been through means other than torture. But those we’ve gotten information from have also not been captured by high risk, low percentage missions into remote, Afghan/Pakistani mountain regions. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/93 "2010-02-22T23:24:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > We’ve never obtained any useful information through waterboarding. All the useful information we’ve gotten has been through means other than torture. What’s your evidence for this proposition? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/94 "2010-02-22T23:27:23Z")
MR. OBAMA!!! I have the answer! Equip the predator drones with harpoons. Not antiship weapons, actual harpoons. We can harpoon the bad guys (like, through a leg or abdomen), reel them in, bring them in for prompt medical treatment and maybe talk to half of them. Solves the intel problems with eliminating sources and makes Marwan think twice about becoming a terrorist. I have lots of ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/95 "2010-02-22T23:27:36Z")
The now released CIA reports that say we never got any useful information from “enhanced interrogation.” ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/96 "2010-02-22T23:32:54Z")
I’m curious as to the sourcing of Thiessen’s facts. This one’ll do for starters: > [@](#): > > Obama’s escalation of the “Predator War” comes at the very same time he has eliminated the CIA’s capability to capture senior terrorist leaders alive and interrogate them for information on new attacks. How does he know that Obama “eliminated the CIA’s capability to capture senior terrorist leaders alive”? Is Thiessen just talking out of his hat, or does he have special access to classified information on the CIA’s overseas operations? •If the former, he should just stop it. It’s not in any way helpful to those who might actually know what the facts on the ground are and actually have to formulate policy based on those facts. It’s just noise, and partisan noise at that. •If the later, is it _legal_ access, or are former Bush admin officials running partisan moles at the CIA? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/97 "2010-02-22T23:45:38Z")
Gee Rand, sorry for offering a little common sense in the middle of a loaded question. Didn’t mean to ruin your fun. Dickhead. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/98 "2010-02-22T23:46:50Z")
Ideally, we’re still capturing and questioning these people, we’re just no longer stupid enough to transport them back to American soil or rendition them through friendly European nations. Ideally too, we’re not torturing them for information, as it is fairly counter-productive. ---
**Author:** ![Alienhand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8edcca/32.png) [@Alienhand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alienhand)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/99 "2010-02-23T00:00:45Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > MR. OBAMA!!! > > I have the answer! > > Equip the predator drones with harpoons. Not antiship weapons, actual harpoons. We can harpoon the bad guys (like, through a leg or abdomen), reel them in, bring them in for prompt medical treatment and maybe talk to half of them. > > Solves the intel problems with eliminating sources and makes Marwan think twice about becoming a terrorist. > > I have lots of ideas. That would make Friday night war porn way more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810/100 "2010-02-23T00:38:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The now released CIA reports that say we never got any useful information from “enhanced interrogation.” As the article you posted indicates, those reports don’t say that, and they imply the exact opposite. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-is-killing-too-many-terrorists/529810.md?page=6)