# Obama lays down the law with the DNC **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039 "2008-06-06T18:02:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/21 "2008-06-06T18:54:38Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] This is all about putting the squeeze on McCain. McCain says he’s in favor of reform, but he’s packed his campaign with lobbyists and he can’t afford to stop taking money from them. Obama is setting himself up to start pummelling McCain on his “reform” talking points. Attack the enemy’s strengths, baby. Last week he smacked McCain on national defense. Now he’s teeing up clean government. The overall strategy is to force McCain to play defense from now 'til November. So far it’s working beautifully. [/QUOTE] Dang. Obama is scary good at this. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/22 "2008-06-06T18:54:54Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I gotta say it’s great to see you Democrats in the driver’s seat for a change. No wooden Indians. No ketchup bottles. No trailer trash from Arkansas. You’ve got a fearless, intelligent, and articulate leader with a good heart, an even temperament, and a great vision for America. It wouldn’t surprise me to see y’all wax patriotic every once in a while. 😃 [/QUOTE] We’re the ones who’ve actually BEEN patriotic the whole last seven and a half years, rather than the ones who’ve talked a big game while replacing the definition of patriotic with that of jingoistic. We’re also the ones who actually cared about the troops the last seven and a half years, rather than the ones who talked a big game about it while really meaning they cared about KBR and Halliburton. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/23 "2008-06-06T19:00:31Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I like this kind of assertiveness, I like the imposition of a genuine change, [/QUOTE] Eh, its more symbolic then a “genuine change”. As the article notes, PAC money wasn’t a major source of funding for the DNC before this policy, and I imagine the same money will simply be re-routed to Dem political campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/24 "2008-06-06T19:11:49Z")
Reminds me of Jesse Jackson’s line: “If they saw me walk on water, they’d say it was because I can’t swim.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/25 "2008-06-06T19:20:25Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] Dang. Obama is scary good at this. [/QUOTE] Better at talking than doing, though. Obama takes lobbyist money quite a bit, and has lots of lobbyists in his campaign, even the campaign inner circle. [Link.](http://www.newsweek.com/id/138519) > [@](#): > > What got scant notice then—but may soon get more scrutiny—is that CORE was the brainchild of ASK Public Strategies, a consulting firm whose senior partner is David Axelrod, now chief strategist for Barack Obama. > > Last week, Obama hit John McCain for hiring “some of the biggest lobbyists in Washington” to run his campaign; Obama’s aides say their candidate, as a foe of “special interests,” has refused to take money from lobbyists or employ them. > > …But the activities of ASK (located in the same office as Axelrod’s political firm) illustrate the difficulties in defining exactly who a lobbyist is. In 2004, Cablevision hired ASK to set up a group similar to CORE to block a new stadium for the New York Jets in Manhattan. Unlike Illinois, New York disclosure laws do cover such work, and ASK’s $1.1 million fee was listed as the “largest lobbying contract” of the year in the annual report of the state’s lobbying commission. ASK last year proposed a similar “political campaign style approach” to help Illinois hospitals block a state proposal that would have forced them to provide more medical care to the indigent. One part of its plan: create a “grassroots” group of medical experts “capable of contacting policymakers to advocate for our position,” according to a copy of the proposal. (ASK didn’t get the contract.) Public-interest watchdogs say these grassroots campaigns are state of the art in the lobbying world. “There’s no way with a straight face to say that’s not lobbying,” says Ellen Miller, director of the Sunlight Foundation, which promotes government transparency. > > Axelrod says there are still huge differences between him and top McCain advisers, including the fact that he doesn’t work in D.C. But his corporate clients do have business in the capital. One of them, Exelon, lobbied Obama two years ago on a nuclear bill; the firm’s executives and employees have also been a top source of cash for Obama’s campaign, contributing $236,211. Axelrod says he’s never talked to Obama about Exelon matters. “I’m not going to public officials with bundles of money on behalf of a corporate client,” Axelrod says. [Link.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/28/AR2008052802499.html) > [@](#): > > The co-director of Barack Obama’s presidential campaign in Puerto Rico is a Washington-based federal lobbyist for the government of Puerto Rico. > > Ethics watchdogs said that the high-profile role of Francisco J. Pavía appears to contradict the Obama campaign’s ethics guidelines, which forbid federal lobbyists from working on staff. But Obama spokesman Bill Burton said Pavía is an “active volunteer” – not a paid staffer – and can hold the job without running afoul of the campaign’s rules. [This is a link to the top sources of corporate cash for Obama’s campaign.](http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?id=N00009638&cycle=2008) The donations would be through the PAC or the corporation’s employees. The law firms listed are all registered DC lobbyists. Now if a partner of a lobbying firm gives you a personal donation, but he made that money through lobbying - can you say you didn’t take lobbying money? That would be a stretch, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/26 "2008-06-06T19:24:44Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Now if a partner of a lobbying firm gives you a personal donation, but he made that money through lobbying - can you say you didn’t take lobbying money? [/quote] Of course. What makes lobby money lobby money is desire for a quid pro quo. A personal donation which is not made on behalf of any company or PAC is not lobby money. If you make a donation to John Mccain, is he taking money from the military? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/27 "2008-06-06T19:27:40Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] (I know the answer would be yes if he were POTUS, but he ain’t there yet.) [/QUOTE] The DNC doesn’t even have to do what a Democratic President wants. It’s generally a good idea if POTUS and the party are in line, but the DNC and its chairman are independent of the president. (The DNC Chairman is elected by the members of the DNC, unlike the chairman of the RNC, who’s appointed by the President if the President is a Republican). ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/28 "2008-06-06T19:27:46Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Better at talking than doing, though. [/QUOTE] Your no doubt sincere concern has been noted and discarded. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/29 "2008-06-06T19:29:21Z")
Well, Jesus, **Mr. Moto**. Nobody’s more than six degrees removed from Kevin Bacon. If that’s the best you guys can do this year, you should just quit wasting your money now, drop out of the election, and spend what you need to gut your party and rebuild it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/30 "2008-06-06T19:30:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Of course. What makes lobby money lobby money is desire for a quid pro quo. [/QUOTE] The exchange of money for a quid pro quo isn’t lobbying. It’s bribery, and is illegal under US law. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/31 "2008-06-06T19:39:39Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] Your no doubt sincere concern has been noted and discarded. [/QUOTE] I’ll remember that when you express likewise sincere concern about McCain. 😉 Look, when someone is saying he’s pure as Ivory flakes, it isn’t bad manners to point out the Playboys sticking out from under his mattress. None of this means Obama is a criminal or anything - he just set up rules to allow him to say he’s not taking lobbying money or hiring lobbyists while in fact he’s doing both. Now if he manages perceptions so well that all of you actually see things his way, fine. I don’t happen to do so. In fact, I don’t have much problem with lobbying - and I don’t think most of us do either, so long as those lobbyists are working for causes we believe in. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/32 "2008-06-06T19:41:31Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Well, Jesus, **Mr. Moto**. Nobody’s more than six degrees removed from Kevin Bacon. If that’s the best you guys can do this year, you should just quit wasting your money now, drop out of the election, and spend what you need to gut your party and rebuild it. [/QUOTE] I will point out that these weren’t opinion pieces - they were mainstream news stories. And if Obama continues this anti-lobbyist stance, the extent of his own involvement with lobbyists will attract more scrutiny. Besides, Obama’s chief strategist isn’t six degrees - it’s about one. Think Karl Rove to Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/33 "2008-06-06T19:50:17Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] The exchange of money for a quid pro quo isn’t lobbying. It’s bribery, and is illegal under US law. [/QUOTE] Yeah, right. Just like those “water pipes” at the head shops are sold for “tobacco use only.” ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/34 "2008-06-06T19:50:34Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Well, Jesus, **Mr. Moto**. Nobody’s more than six degrees removed from Kevin Bacon. If that’s the best you guys can do this year, you should just quit wasting your money now, drop out of the election, and spend what you need to gut your party and rebuild it. [/QUOTE] They have a [crack team](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/22/AR2008052203905.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns) working on it as we speak. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/35 "2008-06-06T19:59:08Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] They have a [crack team](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/22/AR2008052203905.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns) working on it as we speak. [/QUOTE] If we _really_ think about it, I think we know who was the gunman on the grassy knoll (Obama was what, two?). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/36 "2008-06-06T19:59:11Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] They have a [crack team](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/22/AR2008052203905.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns) working on it as we speak. [/QUOTE] From your Wapo link: > [@](#): > > But the star of the show was the ancient Herbert Romerstein, who once plied his trade for the Un-American Activities committee. “We decided to start going back and seeing what things influenced him even before he was born,” Romerstein announced without a trace of irony, before tying Obama to the Communist Party of the 1930s in Hawaii and Soviet spies on the island. “This is the atmosphere that young Barack Obama grew up in.” There aren’t enough rolleyes. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/37 "2008-06-06T20:02:18Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] There aren’t enough rolleyes. [/QUOTE] Cold Warriors never die. They just spend a lot of time in the freezer in suspended animation between the occasions when they’re trotted out by the John Birch Society for surreal political performance art. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/38 "2008-06-06T20:05:49Z")
> [@](#): > > **The co-director of Barack Obama’s presidential campaign in Puerto Rico** is a Washington-based federal lobbyist for the government of Puerto Rico. > > Ethics watchdogs said that **the high-profile role of Francisco J. Pavía** appears to contradict the Obama campaign’s ethics guidelines, which forbid federal lobbyists from working on staff. But Obama spokesman Bill Burton said Pavía is an “active volunteer” – not a paid staffer – and can hold the job without running afoul of the campaign’s rules. So the co-chair of his campaign in Puerto Rico is a “high-profile role”? Hell, they can’t even come up with anybody from an actual _state_. If this really is a meaningless gesture from Obama, I assume McCain won’t have any problem following suit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/39 "2008-06-06T20:12:09Z")
I’ve been active in party very heavily in the past, and I was completely unaware that the party was the personal property of the nominee. I’ve never been a DNC member, but I thought that they voted on this sort of thing. DNC members are elected to their posts by State Central Committees acting through their Executive Boards if they have one. I think that there was a lot more room for looking classy here. But it is not a proposal I would simply rubber stamp. The implication is that PACs and Lobbyists are inherently evil. That’s a naive position. It also unilaterally disarms us against Republicans, who are inherently evil (just kidding! only elected Republicans are inherently evil). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039/40 "2008-06-06T20:25:24Z")
[QUOTE=The Second Stone] It also unilaterally disarms us against Republicans [/QUOTE] What part of his fundraising in the primaries looks like disarmament to you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-lays-down-the-law-with-the-dnc/452039.md?page=3)