# Obama, like Bush, ignores military recommendations **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 17, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881 "2015-10-17T06:04:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/1 "2015-10-17T06:04:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Mr. Obama is keeping 5,500 troops in Afghanistan beyond his presidency, about half the strength recommended by his top general in-country. It marks the sixth time he has rejected the advice of a ground commander on the force size in the long Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Military experts call that streak unprecedented for a commander in chief. [http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/15/obama-ignores-generals-on-troop-levels-for-unprece/](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/15/obama-ignores-generals-on-troop-levels-for-unprece/) Oh my. I thought that liberals held advice from the military to be well-nigh sacred. At least that’s the impression that one might get from the ferocious criticism of Bush’s decision to ignore advice on how many troops would be needed in Iraq. How times have changed. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/2 "2015-10-17T10:25:49Z")
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Liberals are generally for a smaller military force. We’re distrustful of our military. We’re the ones who have been trying to decrease the numbers deployed in the area. Bush was criticized for not realizing he couldn’t accomplish his objectives. He was criticized for making a really boneheaded decision to go to Iraq. But I’ve never seen him criticized for sending _too few_ soldiers except by the right. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/3 "2015-10-17T13:32:28Z")
Plus, \*\*Flyer \*\*thinks President Obama is a liberal. That’s adorable. ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/4 "2015-10-17T13:40:39Z")
It is obvious that Obama stopped caring about Afghanistan a long time ago. Even our counter-IS strategy is a bunch of half-assed measures designed to appease critics while keeping us out of a war he knows we have no business being in. Nevermind the fact that neither Obama nor Bush has had any interest in permanently “winning” Afghanistan. They continue to fund Pakistan, which both Presidents KNOW channels those funds to the Taliban. As long as the Pakistani military continues to exist, so will the Taliban. Continuing to commit soldiers to a war you do not want to win is immoral as fuck. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/5 "2015-10-17T14:36:34Z")
I spent 37 years as part of the DOD, both military and civilian. Like any other organization, the military considers itself to be of ultimate importance, plus it wants as big a piece of the budgetary pie as it can get, just like everyone else. So while, for the most part, military people are conservative, they’re not going to be conservative in what they request. And, at least from my experience, some are just bat-shit crazy in assuming that the whole rest of the world is evil and must be subjugated. As a result, they’ll ask for more than they really want, knowing full well someone higher up will cut their request. It’s how the game is played. I’m just a tad cynical, but in this, I’m pretty sure I’m on target. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/6 "2015-10-17T15:12:17Z")
All presidents should ignore military recommendations. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/7 "2015-10-17T18:16:39Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Plus, \*\*Flyer \*\*thinks President Obama is a liberal. That’s adorable. OMG! A black conservative. Wait a minute… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/8 "2015-10-17T20:34:58Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > All presidents should ignore military recommendations. Well not really, they should not ignore them but they should not feel themselves compelled to abide by them. It should be given a large weight in the decision but in the end the decision must be his. ---
**Author:** ![northporlarbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7bcc69/32.png) [@northporlarbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/northporlarbear)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/9 "2015-10-17T20:41:18Z")
& if someone tries to force your decision, you can just punish & sue them. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/10 "2015-10-17T20:52:55Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > How times have changed. Not really, The Washington _Times_ has always been that bad. Even among newspapers founded by nutty religions, they are _still_ second-rate. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/11 "2015-10-17T21:29:47Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > OMG! A black conservative. > > Wait a minute… Clever. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/12 "2015-10-17T23:37:16Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > I spent 37 years as part of the DOD, both military and civilian. Like any other organization, the military considers itself to be of ultimate importance, plus it wants as big a piece of the budgetary pie as it can get, just like everyone else. So while, for the most part, military people are conservative, they’re not going to be conservative in what they request. And, at least from my experience, some are just bat-shit crazy in assuming that the whole rest of the world is evil and must be subjugated. > > As a result, they’ll ask for more than they really want, knowing full well someone higher up will cut their request. It’s how the game is played. I’m just a tad cynical, but in this, I’m pretty sure I’m on target. That’s my take on it as well. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/13 "2015-10-17T23:41:00Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Well not really, they should not ignore them but they should not feel themselves compelled to abide by them. It should be given a large weight in the decision but in the end the decision must be his. Something like that. In our system the idea is that the CiC is a civilian, and he or she should always be wary of recommendations from the military. Of course they could be perfectly good recommendations, but as you say, that they came from the military should not be weighted in their favor. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/14 "2015-10-19T15:49:37Z")
My doctor recommends a medication or surgery? I’m gonna be wary cuz the recommendation came from a doctor and I’m the Commander in Chief of my body. My auto mechanic recommends a repair to my car? I’m gonna be wary cuz the recommendation came from a mechanic and I’m the Commander in Chief of my vehicle. Yeah, ya gotta be wary of recommendations from people who are experts in their field, especially when you have no expertise or background in the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/15 "2015-10-19T15:56:39Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > My doctor recommends a medication or surgery? I’m gonna be wary cuz the recommendation came from a doctor and I’m the Commander in Chief of my body. > My auto mechanic recommends a repair to my car? I’m gonna be wary cuz the recommendation came from a mechanic and I’m the Commander in Chief of my vehicle. > Yeah, ya gotta be wary of recommendations from people who are experts in their field, especially when you have no expertise or background in the subject. I’m not sure how you think that actually advances your argument. At the end of the day, it’s MY body, and MY car. I’m going to do as much research as I can- usually in the form of second opinions. I’ll take the professional’s opinions under advisement, and I’m likely to accept their advice- but ultimately, \*I’m \*the one who’ll be paying for it if they’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/16 "2015-10-19T16:21:35Z")
Originally you said **be wary** and not **under advisement** which I see as a difference. Military commanders are not known for advising a path that puts the troops at a greater risk, they advise a path that will achieve the mission with the likelihood of having the fewest casualties to their troops. And what price will a lame-duck president pay if he’s wrong? He’s not going to **not** be reelected, his pension isn’t at risk, his life isn’t in danger if he’s wrong. In this specific instance the military personnel will pay if he gets it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/17 "2015-10-19T16:33:39Z")
The CINC should lay out the political objectives and the military should tell him what it’s going to take to accomplish those objectives. Then it’s then up to him or her whether or not to go ahead with that plan and provide the armed services with the requested manpower and equipment. This is like telling the mechanic, “Yes, go ahead and fix my car like I’ve asked you to, but you can only use these 4 wrenches and a flathead.” If Obama thinks we can only afford to leave 5500 troops there, then he needs to dial back his objectives until the commanders agree they can accomplish it with the manpower provided. Otherwise this is just setting them up to fail. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/18 "2015-10-19T16:41:27Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > It is obvious that Obama stopped caring about Afghanistan a long time ago. Even our counter-IS strategy is a bunch of half-assed measures designed to appease critics while keeping us out of a war he knows we have no business being in. We have an anti-IS strategy? Since when? 😕 Our current policy is basically one of prentending to care, while mostly just sticking our heads in the sand and letting Russia step in to fill the power vacuum. I guess you could call that a strategy, in the same way a 10-speed mixer counts “Off” as one of the speeds. ---
**Author:** ![WildBlueYonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@WildBlueYonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildBlueYonder)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/19 "2015-10-19T22:08:21Z")
so dump the military down so low that we can’t defend ourselves? anyway, professional politicians like war, they profit from it so that is why it just continues on… yes that was me ending a sentence with a preposition…also I never really know what I am saying so I just spit out whatever floats my boat Nor am I any good at debate since I can’t defend my statements, just another reason to ignore me. It all entertains me so ya know…I just keep on keeping on 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881/20 "2015-10-19T22:14:45Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > And what price will a lame-duck president pay if he’s wrong? He’s not going to **not** be reelected, his pension isn’t at risk, his life isn’t in danger if he’s wrong. In this specific instance the military personnel will pay if he gets it wrong. what price would he pay for leaving 10,000 troops there? None. So why isn’t he? He’s just dong what he thinks is right, I assume. Personally, I trust his judgment [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-like-bush-ignores-military-recommendations/734881.md?page=2)