# Obama makes a potentially catastrophic misstep **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655 "2009-01-23T16:07:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/21 "2009-01-23T17:03:35Z")
> [@haymarketmartyr](#): > > I think its when you show the big mushroom on the one dollar bill. Or when you fold it to make it say “THE USSR”. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/22 "2009-01-23T17:12:20Z")
[http://www.forbes.com/businessinthebeltway/2007/05/02/china-currency-trade-biz-wash-cx\_bw\_0503china.html](http://www.forbes.com/businessinthebeltway/2007/05/02/china-currency-trade-biz-wash-cx_bw_0503china.html) here is a Forbes article with Paulson as a contributor from 2003. This is not new. MSWAS is just grasping at ways to complain about Obama. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/23 "2009-01-23T17:16:28Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://www.forbes.com/businessinthebeltway/2007/05/02/china-currency-trade-biz-wash-cx\_bw\_0503china.html](http://www.forbes.com/businessinthebeltway/2007/05/02/china-currency-trade-biz-wash-cx_bw_0503china.html) here is a Forbes article with Paulson as a contributor from 2003. This is not new. MSWAS is just grasping at ways to complain about Obama. Why would I be grasping at ways to complain about Obama? I voted for him and like him a lot. Is it possible to talk about your messiah without you getting all upset about it? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/24 "2009-01-23T17:58:39Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Why would I be grasping at ways to complain about Obama? \*\* I voted for him\*\* and like him a lot. > > Is it possible to talk about **your messiah** without you getting all upset about it? Can you see our possible confusion here **mswas**? The only people who use the term “your messiah” with reference to Obama are those that are on the Republican “team” who are trying to discredit him. Also, your hyperbole in the OP title says a lot about where you stand: “catastrophic” ??? No, not really. Only in the minds of those on the right grasping at straws. “misstep” ?? No. A misstep is an unintentional mistake. There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that this was non intentional. Your use of language indicates your position on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/25 "2009-01-23T18:00:25Z")
[quote=“Euphonious\_Polemic, post:24, topic:482655”] (fluff redacted) > [@](#): > > “misstep” ?? No. A misstep is an unintentional mistake. There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that this was non intentional. Right, it’s an unintentional mistake. He intended to make the action but it might not be the right one. Then again it might be the right one. That’s why it’s a debate. The rest of it I am uninterested in. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/26 "2009-01-23T18:05:30Z")
[http://blog.atimes.net/?p=494](http://blog.atimes.net/?p=494) This article talks about the issue. There is a pertinent addendum by the author in the comments. > [@](#): > > Regarding China, let me put it this way: the trouble in China is that the Chinese are saving too much (around 50% of income) while Americans were saving too little (zero). The result was a flow of excess savings from China to the US. To reverse this, a couple of things have to happen. Chinese must feel more secure so that that the precautionary rate of savings falls. Fixing the dollar-yuan rate with a solemn commitment of both governments would tell the Chinese people that their savings are secure. If there were a small revaluation as part of the fixing, that would not necessarily be bad, but the important thing is stability. > > WIth stability, the Chinese will save less and spend more, which is what America wants to happen. > > If you simply force a revaluation upon the Chinese, exports fall further, there is more unemployment, and more fear, and more precautionary savings. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/27 "2009-01-23T18:15:48Z")
> [@Euphonious Polemic](#): > > “misstep” ?? No. A misstep is an unintentional mistake. There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that this was non intentional. This semantic argument I don’t quite get. For one thing, what’s an “unintentional mistake”? Is there any other kind? Can’t “misstep” just mean “mistake” in general, and can’t there be a difference of opinion about whether a particular action is a mistake? One person’s misstep is another person’s wise move. > [@mswas](#): > > Right, it’s an unintentional mistake. He intended to make the action but it might not be the right one. Then again it might be the right one. That’s how I read it. Actually, we do need a term for the concept “obvious mistake that even the perpetrator immediately realizes was a mistake”, as opposed to “alleged mistake that the perpetrator and his supporters think is a good idea.” If we don’t agree on using “misstep” for this, what word should we use? “Gaffe”? “Fumble”? “Blooper”? Anybody? Bueller? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/28 "2009-01-23T18:21:07Z")
**gonzomax** is entirely correct. Obama is taking a position on a controversy that has been around for more than six years. Hell, China changed its monetary police THREE YEARS ago exactly because of the charges of currency manipulation that have been prevalent in Washington, DC for so long. The value of their currency is continuing to change very slowly, even though it hasn’t been truly floated. Now, currency manipulation is a contentious issue, but the OP lays it out in the most chicken little-like way possible. Countries bark and bicker about these kinds of disputes, but it isn’t like Obama called Hu Jintao’s mother a whore. The idea that this will lead to an economic meltdown is just hooey. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/29 "2009-01-23T18:21:45Z")
Well the debate really should be. ‘Was it a mistake?’ ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/30 "2009-01-23T18:29:12Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **gonzomax** is entirely correct. Obama is taking a position on a controversy that has been around for more than six years. Hell, China changed its monetary police THREE YEARS ago exactly because of the charges of currency manipulation that have been prevalent in Washington, DC for so long. The value of their currency is continuing to change very slowly, even though it hasn’t been truly floated. > > Now, currency manipulation is a contentious issue, but the OP lays it out in the most chicken little-like way possible. Countries bark and bicker about these kinds of disputes, but it isn’t like Obama called Hu Jintao’s mother a whore. The idea that this will lead to an economic meltdown is just hooey. Well except that Obama himself signed legislation requiring one to make a bigger deal out of it. [http://stabenow.senate.gov/press/2008/040308Currency.htm](http://stabenow.senate.gov/press/2008/040308Currency.htm) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/31 "2009-01-23T18:31:31Z")
This story is a huge story because it IS a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/32 "2009-01-23T18:43:28Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well except that Obama himself signed legislation requiring one to make a bigger deal out of it. He didn’t sign it (into law). He cosponsored this bill. And the same bill has been around since 2003. Look, trade is ALWAYS a contentious issue, whether it involves China, Japan, Canada, or Europe. So what? Trade disputes, while sometimes being as painful as a trip to the dentist, generally don’t spin out of control because all parties generally have more to gain by reaching an agreement after months, or even years, of posturing and acting tough than they do by trying to wreck the relationship. You can call it brinksmanship if you like, except that everyone knows that nobody is really willing to push “the button.” Unless, of course, you honestly believe that China isn’t playing games with its currency; or that you believe that we should just agree with everything China does and never actually criticize their policies. Just how scared are you of China, anyways? ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/33 "2009-01-23T18:48:05Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > What do you think will be the result of this? Some huffing and puffing, but nothing substantial. As you quoted: > [@](#): > > It remained unclear whether Mr. Geithner was signaling that Mr. Obama would officially declare later this spring that China was engaging in currency manipulation, when the administration is required by a 20-year-old trade law to report to Congress on exchange rate issues. Such a finding would begin a legal process that starts with diplomacy and could end with the imposition of trade barriers like tariffs. … He stopped short of charging that China is manipulating its currency intentionally to gain an unfair trade advantage, as the 1988 law requires for an official citation of currency “manipulation.” This is like a suggestion that we’re thinking about the possibility of eventually firing a warning shot. > [@](#): > > The Bush administration purposely did not use the term “currency manipulator” to avoid antagonizing the Chinese, even when it was criticizing China’s trade policies. I think it’s good to have a president who’s not afraid to say things China might not want to hear. There are a lot more things that should be said, frankly. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/34 "2009-01-23T19:00:04Z")
Artificially valuing currency seems to always lead to disaster down the road. It’s nice to see decisions being made which don’t give precedent to short term consequences ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/35 "2009-01-23T19:01:37Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > There are a lot more things that should be said, frankly. Especially regarding human rights. Something along the lines of: > [@](#): > > America stands in firm opposition to China’s detention of political dissidents, human rights advocates and religious activists or maybe > [@](#): > > The US believes the people of China deserve the fundamental liberty that is the natural right of all human beings ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/36 "2009-01-23T19:06:04Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Can you see our possible confusion here **mswas**? > > The only people who use the term “your messiah” with reference to Obama are those that are on the Republican “team” who are trying to discredit him. Here on the SDMB, we’ve seen Obama supporters complain about the outright adulation and messianic fervor that some of their fellow supporters have for the man. I daresay that **mswas** ’s comment was along those lines. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/37 "2009-01-23T19:07:07Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Just how scared are you of China, anyways? Scared enough to know that they could make things worse if they really wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/38 "2009-01-23T19:24:13Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well, it’s a pretty bold move. It’s about time that the US moved toward making the complaint official. If Obama is going to make bold moves (I remember that the Bush Administration called everything they did “bold” for the first two years), now is the time to do it. Doing so in testimony before congress by a nominee before he has been confirmed seems to be just half a step shy of being official. Probably a good move. The Chinese tested Bush early on with the Orion incident and forcing it to land. I expect them to pull the same kind of crap with Obama. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/39 "2009-01-23T19:27:28Z")
China is laying off workers. They have less money to give us to escape our foolish ways. They will eventually have to refuse giving us money. That will be a bad day for all of us. The big deal is the theft of the world wealth by the financial experts. it was a huge redistribution of assets. They are too powerful to be forced to give it back. They will however, be willing to take millions to attempt to fix what they did. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/40 "2009-01-23T19:29:23Z")
Well then, in the spirit of this “debate”, I will simply wave my paw at your arguments and say “bah”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655.md?page=3)