# Obama makes a potentially catastrophic misstep **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655 "2009-01-23T16:07:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/41 "2009-01-23T19:32:21Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > If true, this means that China may be selling goods for less than the cost of production. Have you ever been in one of those Poundsaver( I imagine it’s Dollarsaver over there if you have them!) stores? They can’t possibly be making a profit on every line in those stores. You’d be amazed what you can get for a quid! Anyone know who owns the chain? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/42 "2009-01-23T19:35:49Z")
[China hits back over Renminbi comments](http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/75d83aca-e975-11dd-9535-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1) > [@](#): > > The US and China have embarked on a public row over foreign exchange policy only three days after Barack Obama’s inauguration, with China denying today it was “manipulating” its currency and saying the allegation would only fan protectionist sentiment in the US. > > The Chinese government was responding to claims by Tim Geithner, President Obama’s choice for Treasury secretary, who told a Senate nomination hearing on Thursday that China was “manipulating” the renminbi. > > Mr Geithner’s blunt tone appeared to indicate a more confrontational approach towards China on economic issues. > > In a statement today, China’s commerce ministry said Beijing “has never used so-called currency manipulation to gain benefits in its international trade”, AFP, the news agency, reported. “Directing unsubstantiated criticism at China on the exchange-rate issue will only help US protectionism and will not help towards a real solution to the issue.” ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/43 "2009-01-23T19:38:15Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Scared enough to know that they could make things worse if they really wanted to. How could they do this without making themselves worse off too? If they can’t, why would they do so? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/44 "2009-01-23T19:40:27Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Have you ever been in one of those Poundsaver( I imagine it’s Dollarsaver over there if you have them!) stores? They can’t possibly be making a profit on every line in those stores. You’d be amazed what you can get for a quid! Anyone know who owns the chain? The same thing exists here. I once bought a remarkably reliable pocket item that triple as a key chain, radio and mini-flashlight. Just mentioning it because I was amazed that such a small and inexpensive item worked so well and for so long. Sorry for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/45 "2009-01-23T19:40:48Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > How could they do this without making themselves worse off too? > > If they can’t, why would they do so? People over there might be asking the same about Geithner’s comments. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/46 "2009-01-23T19:43:34Z")
Opening the issue up for discussion isn’t a mistake. Where it goes from here is still yet to be determined, if Obama creates an effective “trade war” with China then it could be disastrous for both country’s economies. I don’t think that will happen, but all it would take is Obama having more stubbornness than good sense and someone on the Chinese side being of similar sentiment. Handling the Chinese is quite a bit different than handling the Republicans, so we’ll have to see how it goes. Even if things work out so that China behaves in a manner that is a bit more favorable to our manufacturing firms, it could lead to problems if the Chinese stop buying up as much of our treasury securities. There’s also the outside issue of North Korea–a country that might be willing to try and misbehave again if it thinks America’s relationship with China is taking a turn for the worse. Right now this is just good old fashioned brinkmanship, and it’s a pretty standard part of international relations. ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/47 "2009-01-23T19:46:48Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > People over there might be asking the same about Geithner’s comments. I’m not sure what you mean. That accusing China of currency manipulations doesn’t do anything but spark a trade war and shoot both sides in the foot? If so, I believe the Chinese understand politics, and that this is only an issue if actual action is taken. Geithner’s comments could simply be a meaningless sop to the anti-China brigade, which will be quietly forgotten. ETA: I don’t this accusation itself will spark off anything but a round of hot air. The key will be if Obama follows up with something substantial. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/48 "2009-01-23T19:54:40Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Even if things work out so that China behaves in a manner that is a bit more favorable to our manufacturing firms, it could lead to problems if the Chinese stop buying up as much of our treasury securities. Aren’t they buying less and less as it is? Making this a perfect time to make this move. **Discordia** Well, China dropped the value of their currency in response to these words. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/49 "2009-01-23T19:59:34Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Even if things work out so that China behaves in a manner that is a bit more favorable to our manufacturing firms, it could lead to problems if the Chinese stop buying up as much of our treasury securities. China holds something like 20% of public federal debt. I’m skeptical it would be that hard to find someone else to buy it if we had to, especially with the lack of other safe investment opportunities floating around. > [@](#): > > Discordia Well, China dropped the value of their currency in response to these words. Well, that’s certainly a good way to convince others your not manipulating your currency. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/50 "2009-01-23T20:00:19Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Especially regarding human rights. Something along the lines of: > > or maybe This is laughable. America is in no position to lecture anyone on Human Rights after all it has done and continues to do. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/51 "2009-01-23T20:08:40Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The Chinese tested Bush early on with the Orion incident and forcing it to land. The Chinese did not “force” the plane to land. Circumstances did. American and Chinese planes had been playing cat and mouse games for many years when this accident happened. In the accidental collision the Chinese pilot was killed and the American plane was so damaged that it was forced to land in Hainan. It was an accident with no side to blame but if you _have_ to find blame I would say the USA was guilty of provoking the incident by being off the Chinese coast. Do you think America would take it kindly if Chinese planes were continually fying off the coast spying? > [@](#): > > I expect them to pull the same kind of crap with Obama. Since it was America and not China pulling the crap this makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/52 "2009-01-23T20:14:20Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > People over there might be asking the same about Geithner’s comments. Are you going to engage anybody’s questions with substantive comments? Or will all your responses on this issue be of the same, completely non-substantive vein as this comment? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/53 "2009-01-23T20:16:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Are you going to engage anybody’s questions with substantive comments? Or will all your responses on this issue be of the same, completely non-substantive vein as this comment? Do you have a substantive question? How am I supposed to answer a question like the one posed. Yes, I do think that China might act in a way that hurts them just like we might act in a way that hurts us. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/54 "2009-01-23T20:18:30Z")
He may deign to tell them that their arguments are infantile and that he’ll ignore them in future… Cause after all, he is an Obama supporter don’t cha know. Or was your question purely rhetorical? ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/55 "2009-01-23T20:27:23Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > **Discordia** Well, China dropped the value of their currency in response to these words. The idea of dropping the value of your currency in response to claims that you manipulate your currency is…well, requiring of a cite at least. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/56 "2009-01-23T20:27:47Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > He may deign to tell them that their arguments are infantile and that he’ll ignore them in future… Cause after all, he is an Obama supporter don’t cha know. > > Or was your question purely rhetorical? Hey, Stalker, start a pit thread or say something about the topic. I’m tired of you following me around like a yapping dog. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/57 "2009-01-23T20:30:07Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > The idea of dropping the value of your currency in response to claims that you manipulate your currency is…well, requiring of a cite at least. I think I might have misunderstood something I read actually. I’m going to verify and get back to you. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/58 "2009-01-23T20:41:45Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Scared enough to know that they could make things worse if they really wanted to. How? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/59 "2009-01-23T20:50:43Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > How? Manipulate the currency further. Stop investing in Treasury Bonds? Reverse direction on this: [BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China 'wants strong links to US'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7839072.stm) ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655/60 "2009-01-23T20:53:19Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Manipulate the currency further. Stop investing in Treasury Bonds? As in, give their businesses fewer yuan for their dollar? If that doesn’t cause revolution, nothing would. Ok, they could stop buying treasurys. Got another suggestion for what they can do with all of those singles? Invest in the American stock market? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-makes-a-potentially-catastrophic-misstep/482655.md?page=4)