# Obama mandates that hopsitals must respect the rights of same-sex partners **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 16, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358 "2010-04-16T16:09:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/21 "2010-04-16T19:54:11Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Basically what this means to me is that straight single people do not enjoy the rights of married straight couples either. The assumption I’m inferring here is that there SHOULD be a distinction between a ‘‘friend’’ or ‘’‘lover’’ and a ‘‘husband’’ from a legal standpoint, and I can’t get behind that. Marriage is an institution of privilege that excludes more than just gays. So I applaud the legislation for acknowledging that. The problem is that marriage is documented, while a hospital will have a hard time distinguishing between a visitor who is in a long term relationship with a patient and Joe or Jane Blow. Now the patient can make the decision, which is great. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/22 "2010-04-16T20:41:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Incidentally, this mandate doesn’t just apply to same-sex partners, but basically allows any unmarried person to designate a non-family member as a decision maker/visitor. It allows unmarried people or widows to designate close friends, for example, or people in religious orders to designate someone from the Church. Thanks Dio, this was the only question I had. I have no problem with the patient being able to designate whoever they wish. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/23 "2010-04-16T20:51:21Z")
Ah, under what powers can the president give orders to private hospitals? the federal HIPAA laws are pretty explicit about patient privacy. The hospitals are not allowed to give out patient information unless it’s a spouse or close relative. I can’t see any presidential memorandum legally overriding federal law. I’ve had HIPAA training in my job and signed a contract acknowledging my responsibilities. There are severe penalties for violating HIPAA for myelf and my employer. I do support patients rights for gay couples. I just don’t think a memo from the Pres is the way to do it. It needs to be done in Congress. > [@](#): > > Under HIPAA, Congress has provided for either civil or … be subject to a fine of up to $1000, a prison term of up to 5 years [http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:qDJrgmaWKBgJ:www.ehcca.com/presentations/HIPAA3/malone\_1.pdf+HIPAA+prison&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShTeg78VUABbjVG5Ig4-V13g4W1XvPdtvuTeHSr2jSojHUXdqblq34hnglq\_5c5S1tSjVszQcTzH5XY1ITdjuW9fvDzXEheslyYqnPSajIuz3475z7Q-fniMvRTvCywWkdavaoI&sig=AHIEtbRM1nrZZCM\_ygg3K\_dWP8bQkwgWSw](http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:qDJrgmaWKBgJ:www.ehcca.com/presentations/HIPAA3/malone_1.pdf+HIPAA+prison&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShTeg78VUABbjVG5Ig4-V13g4W1XvPdtvuTeHSr2jSojHUXdqblq34hnglq_5c5S1tSjVszQcTzH5XY1ITdjuW9fvDzXEheslyYqnPSajIuz3475z7Q-fniMvRTvCywWkdavaoI&sig=AHIEtbRM1nrZZCM_ygg3K_dWP8bQkwgWSw) I’m sure as hell not risking prison on Obamas say so. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/24 "2010-04-16T21:03:33Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Ah, under what powers can the president give orders to private hospitals? I presume that hospitals that attempt to ignore Obama’s new anti-discrimination rule would risk being excluded by HHS from participating in Medicare, which virtually any private hospital needs to do to survive. When articles say a new rule applies to almost every hospital they usually mean that. In practice, the only hospitals that could survive without Medicare payments are VA hospitals, which the government obviously has the power to control, and very select places like the Shriner’s hospitals for children which provide care at no cost. Also, children are very unlikely to have long term gay lovers anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/25 "2010-04-16T21:05:14Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The problem is that marriage is documented, while a hospital will have a hard time distinguishing between a visitor who is in a long term relationship with a patient and Joe or Jane Blow. It’s not like a hospital turns to a spouse and says “You can only go in there after you provide a birth certificate”. I long ago decided that if my SO ever ends up in the hospital I will boldly state that we are married (we aren’t) and sail through the doors without looking back. A same sex couple doesn’t have that option. I’ve got a sneaky suspicion that the true intent of this is to let same sex couples have access to/make decisions for their partners. The fact that it allows everyone to designate who may visit or decide is either a smoke screen or a byproduct of finding a way to make this happen. “What do you mean Sister Charity can’t be visited by her mother superior?” ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/26 "2010-04-16T21:07:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Ah, under what powers can the president give orders to private hospitals? > . He can’t, as I explained in post #4 and #6 above. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/27 "2010-04-16T21:15:59Z")
I wish this had been handled properly by getting a law passed to amend the HIPAA laws. They could easily include same sex partners the same way that spouses are included. The government is getting very aggressive in prosecuting HIPAA violations. We had a case recently that dealt with a local reporters violent attack. A curious doctor and a couple nurses looked her up in the hospitals computer. That type of access is tracked. > [@](#): > > This past Monday, a physician and two former employees at St. Vincent Infirmary Medical Center in Little Rock, Arkansas, pleaded guilty to misdemeanor federal charges that they inappropriately accessed the medical records of local television anchor > **[Anne Pressly | HIPAA & Health Information Technology](https://hipaahealthlaw.foxrothschild.com/tags/anne-pressly/)** You don’t screw around with patient confidentiality. Big Brother will stomp your butt. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/28 "2010-04-16T21:40:41Z")
This was something I was very glad finally happened. It’s ridiculous that adults couldn’t designate anybody they wanted to to have rights over their treatment decisions. Not letting people in to see a patient was also ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/29 "2010-04-16T22:04:31Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > My point is that today, tomorrow, next week, next month, the month after that, and the month after that, nothing will change. Obama’s “mandate” does not have the force of law. All he’s done is order an agency to make some law. The law itself does not yet exist, and no one will benefit from its provisions unless/until it takes effect. Even then, enforcement may be suspended while legal challenges, if any, are decided. > > I deal with people in this situation reasonably often in my line of work. They see a story like this, and think tomorrow, they can go visit their partner with no hassles. It doesn’t work that way. Except… This is a CFR rulemaking pursuant to an Executive Order, right? Which means that sooner or later, in some form or another, it will go into effect. It simply has to go through the process so that the outrage purveyors can register their bodings that this will wreck the American health care system, the button-counters can identify 13 procedural nits which require picking, and so on. Now what about someone in the hospital now, or while the regs. are wending their weary way through the HHS maze? Well, IMO the savvy patient or spouse, or his/her lawyer or advocate, would be pointing to the proposed regs. and saying, “See this? In a few weeks that will be law of the land. You don’t have to comply with it yet, but rest assured that if you don’t, we reserve the right to ask a judge, the accrediting board, the local newspaper, etc., to require you to explain for what medical or legal reason you chose to go against the wishes of your patient, his/her family, and the explicit terms of a proposed federal regulation. Better have a convincing answer ready.” ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/30 "2010-04-16T22:27:46Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > You don’t screw around with patient confidentiality. Big Brother will stomp your butt. How is it a HIPPA violation to give medical information to a person designated by the patient as permitted to see it and make medical decisions if necessary? All President Obama is doing is keeping hospitals from refusing to respect a patient’s decision to allow same-sex or unmarried opposite-sex partners to visit and help make decisions. It’s not like the memo says “if a gay guy comes in and can prove he’s had sex with a patient you have to show him his chart, don’t worry about HIPPA”. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/31 "2010-04-16T23:01:06Z")
deleted. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/32 "2010-04-16T23:40:22Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Now what about someone in the hospital now, or while the regs. are wending their weary way through the HHS maze? Well, IMO the savvy patient or spouse, or his/her lawyer or advocate, would be pointing to the proposed regs. and saying, “See this? In a few weeks that will be law of the land. You don’t have to comply with it yet, but rest assured that if you don’t, we reserve the right to ask a judge, the accrediting board, the local newspaper, etc., to require you to explain for what medical or legal reason you chose to go against the wishes of your patient, his/her family, and the explicit terms of a proposed federal regulation. Better have a convincing answer ready.” Convincing answer: It is not the law of the land as of today. Request denied. If you wish to sue, I assume you know where the courthouse is located. No judge is going to give injunctive relief based on what the law may be someday. An accrediting board isn’t going to be impressed with a complaint that a hospital is in full compliance with current law. A newspaper might publish an article critical of the hospital. Maybe. None of that will gain access to the patient for the partner. As the law stands today, the best solution I know is to anticipate such needs before they happen, and take appropriate steps before becoming incapacitated. An Advanced Health Care Directive (or whatever they call those things now, used to be “living wills”) and/or a PoA can settle most disputes, if properly completed and filed (if required) or presented. I get calls every week from someone needing to get a PoA “over” a sick relative, after the relative has lost the capacity to grant such a power. When the patient can’t execute a PoA, then it may be necessary to set up a gurdianship/conservatorship, which must go through Court. This takes time. If there are significant assets involved, the Court will probably require the guardian/conservator to post a bond and file at least annual accountings. An ounce of prevention is a helluva lot simpler and less expensive than a pound of cure. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/33 "2010-04-17T01:32:05Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > How is it a HIPPA violation to give medical information to a person designated by the patient as permitted to see it and make medical decisions if necessary? All President Obama is doing is keeping hospitals from refusing to respect a patient’s decision to allow same-sex or unmarried opposite-sex partners to visit and help make decisions. It’s not like the memo says “if a gay guy comes in and can prove he’s had sex with a patient you have to show him his chart, don’t worry about HIPPA”. It’s not. You can sign to have someone else in on your care. I’ve had to with my parents, since I’m having to live with them, so that they can talk to them about me if I’m feeling too sick to talk. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/34 "2010-04-17T07:30:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I wish this had been handled properly by getting a law passed to amend the HIPAA laws. They could easily include same sex partners the same way that spouses are included. Yeah, right. A snowball would last a summer in hell long before Congress passes a law allowing same sex partners any rights. Obama did it the only way possible. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/35 "2010-04-17T08:02:58Z")
Looks to me like Obama did the best he could with his power. Good for him. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/36 "2010-04-17T16:33:12Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Also, children are very unlikely to have long term gay lovers anyway. LOL Now there’s a sentence you don’t read everyday 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/37 "2010-04-17T16:40:57Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Yeah, right. A snowball would last a summer in hell You may have missed it, but the New Orleans Saints won the Super Bowl. This means that Hell has frozen over, and thus, snowballs there will last indefinitely. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/38 "2010-04-17T20:39:27Z")
All of the discrimination - not allowing same sex partners health benefits, adoptive benefits, tax breaks, hospital bedside rights - would be taken care of by making gay marriage legal. Until that happens, people aren’t going to comply, and it’s tough to prove you’re “anything” when you lack a legal document in hand. I’ve seen places ignore a gay partner’s PoA. I’m not impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/39 "2010-04-17T21:56:19Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > All of the discrimination - not allowing same sex partners health benefits, adoptive benefits, tax breaks, hospital bedside rights - would be taken care of by making gay marriage legal. Until that happens, people aren’t going to comply, and it’s tough to prove you’re “anything” when you lack a legal document in hand. I’ve seen places ignore a gay partner’s PoA. > > I’m not impressed. Seriously! Why doesn’t Obama snap his fingers and use his magical negro powers (I saw Will Smith do it after all) to make everybody love gay marriage. It’s so fucking simple, even people from Kenya should know how to do it. :rolleyes: Change doesn’t happen overnight. But this is another chip in the wall keeping gay folks from equal rights. It’s going to topple some day soon, but not just yet. In other words, have patience, grasshopper. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358/40 "2010-04-17T22:37:54Z")
A win is a win. Obama did something within his power to get the ball rolling. I thank him for doing so. This is a step in the right direction. Personally I wish he’d be willing to take larger steps on these issues and fill his campaign promise to be a fierce advocate. Given how he’s approached other issues it seems ‘fierce’ just isn’t in his style. He’s a cool cat and his moves often go quiet and without notice. Given that he still has my support, even if I don’t agree with his methods. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-mandates-that-hopsitals-must-respect-the-rights-of-same-sex-partners/536358.md?page=3)