# Obama "Most Divisive" Figure in US Politics **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 20, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525 "2012-05-20T17:13:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/61 "2012-05-22T23:47:37Z")
Yes, Bush took terrorism very seriously once terrorists killed 2,800 people on U.S. soil during his first term. How nice for him. Anyway, the short version is that Bush was divisive because he was a Republican (meaning he supported stuff about half the people opposed) and Clinton and Obama were/are divisive because they’re Democrats (meaning they support stuff about half the people oppose). Statements about how one party or the other doesn’t understand the true character of America should not be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/62 "2012-05-23T00:11:00Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > So you’re seriously suggesting that the nature of the relationship between the Federal government and the average citizen hasn’t changed since the early 1830s? I think he’s suggesting it **shouldn’t** have. And he’s not alone – look around you. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/63 "2012-05-23T00:13:16Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > The U.S. is very much a country that relies upon individual initiative and hard work. That’s what Obama’s been doing all his life. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/64 "2012-05-23T00:16:03Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > Katrina - The handling of natural disasters (and man-made ones such as 911) are primarily a state and local function. :rolleyes: You’d abolish FEMA, wouldn’t you? > [@JBGUSA](#): > > Divisive wars - The Muslim world has been at war with us for centuries. They seem to have mostly forgotten about it until Western powers started **colonizing** them and stuff; they’re still smarting from that. And the Iranians haven’t forgotten [Operation Ajax.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_ajax) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/65 "2012-05-23T02:20:42Z")
The US has never been at war with the Muslim world. We have, at times, been sporadically at war with small portions of the Muslim world. But by the same token, we’ve also, at times, been sporadically at war with small portions of the Anglican, Catholic, Lutheran, Shinto, and Buddhist worlds. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/66 "2012-05-23T02:32:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The US has never been at war with the Muslim world. And that is exactly what Osama bin Laden wanted to change. His idea – well-documented from his broadcasts and published speeches – was to provoke a world war between Dar-al-Islam and the West (which would force the Islamic nations to unite under a new Caliphate and become the world’s newest superpower). Rant In Peace, Osama. Sorry you didn’t get quite what you wanted. At least you got **some** war out of it, don’t be greedy. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/67 "2012-05-23T03:20:23Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > So you’re seriously suggesting that the nature of the relationship between the Federal government and the average citizen hasn’t changed since the early 1830s? I take my history very seriously. I really believe that when it comes to countries or large groups of people, the more things change, the more they stay the same. Europe (except the U.K.) has always been very comfortable with a statist (now called socialist) model. Europe evolved, barely, from absolute monarchy, which was paternalistic in the extreme, to “social democracy” which is still rather paternalistic. In the U.S. that’s not what most people want. > [@Finagle](#): > > And in what crazy universe do we live in where the most divisive thing that the President of the United States has tried to do is ensure that everyone has access to affordable health care? See above. It is “Exhibit ‘A’” for a control freak President. > [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Excuse me?? Clinton made several attempts to capture Osama bin Laden and stop al-Qaeda, amid Republican accusations of “wagging the dog.” He talked a good line but did nothing. > [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Bush ignored several warnings by the intelligence community in July and August of 2001 that a major terrorist operation was in the pipeline and steadfastly refused to take it seriously. The “warnings” were that something bad would happen; no where or when or who. > [@CaptMurdock](#): > > And, after 9/11, where did Bush decide to concentrate the bulk of U.S. armed forces? Iraq, which had **nothing to do** with 9/11. Evidence of WMD’s was manufactured to sell the invasion to Congress and the American people. > > So, don’t give us this “Bush understood what was at stake” balloon juice. Iraq had a lot to do with destabilizing threats to the Middle East. He had nothing to do with 9/11. > [@gamerunknown](#): > > Nah, they took a break and fought with Eurasia for a while. Something to do with a silly treaty Adams signed. I meant that Islam has been at war with the West. That includes Europe, North America, Israel, etc. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/68 "2012-05-23T03:25:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That’s what Obama’s been doing all his life. What payroll has he ever met. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: You’d abolish FEMA, wouldn’t you? Has FEMA ever accomplished anything remotely constructive? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > They seem to have mostly forgotten about it until Western powers started **colonizing** them and stuff; they’re still smarting from that. And the Iranians haven’t forgotten [Operation Ajax.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_ajax) So much so that many Iranians have sought refuge in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/69 "2012-05-23T03:27:39Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > What payroll has he ever met. When come back, bring relevance. > [@JBGUSA](#): > > Has FEMA ever accomplished anything remotely constructive? It could do better, but yes. > [@JBGUSA](#): > > So much so that many Iranians have sought refuge in the U.S. When come back, bring relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/70 "2012-05-23T03:29:03Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > The “warnings” were that something bad would happen; no where or when or who. “Who” was mentioned very prominently. I am sure you remember the name of that memo from August 2001. We’re getting way off-topic here. The bottom line is this, I think: you can proclaim Obama as the most divisive figure in politics, but if the only requirement for being divisive is that other people say you are divisive, then being divisive ceases to be a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/71 "2012-05-23T03:32:05Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > The “warnings” were that something bad would happen; no where or when or who. [It](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike_in_US) [was](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CIA_Memo.JPG) pretty specific as to who. > [@JBGUSA](#): > > Iraq had a lot to do with destabilizing threats to the Middle East. He had nothing to do with 9/11. That ain’t what W/Cheney led us to believe at the time. > [@JBGUSA](#): > > I meant that Islam has been at war with the West. That includes Europe, North America, Israel, etc. That’s just as wrong, then. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/72 "2012-05-23T03:36:46Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > I take my history very seriously. I really believe that when it comes to countries or large groups of people, the more things change, the more they stay the same. Europe (except the U.K.) has always been very comfortable with a statist (now called socialist) model. Europe evolved, barely, from absolute monarchy, which was paternalistic in the extreme, to “social democracy” which is still rather paternalistic. In the U.S. that’s not what most people want. > > See above. It [the Affordable Health Care Act] is “Exhibit ‘A’” for a control freak President. It certainly is what a **lot** of Americans want, going by the [polls.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/27/obamacare-polls-affordable-care-act-health-care-reform_n_1380986.html) Furthermore and importantly: > [@](#): > > One consistent finding is that support for the law on all the polls falls short of a majority. All of the surveys also show near monolithic opposition among Republicans. What these well-reported results often miss, however, is that a non-trivial portion of expressed opposition comes from more liberal Americans disappointed that the Affordable Care Act does not go farther. > > For example, the CNN/ORC International polls conducted over the past two years have found between 50 and 59 percent saying they are generally opposed to the “bill that makes major changes to the country’s health care system [that] became law in 2010.” However, the same surveys also asked a follow-up question showing that 11 and 14 percent of all Americans oppose the health reform law because they think its approach “is not liberal enough.” > > That particular wrinkle – the relatively small but significant number who see critical shortcomings in the law and want it repealed, but want its replacement to do more rather than less – helps explain why poll questions about repealing the law sometimes produce even more divergent results. The Rasmussen Reports’ automated, recorded voice surveys typically find just over 50 percent of likely voters saying they favor a proposal “to repeal the health care bill and stop it from going into effect.” But those polls offer only favor or oppose as answers (and use a potentially confusing format that requires respondents to say they “favor” repeal in order to mean that they “oppose” the law). > > Surveys that offer three or more choices to better reflect respondents’ sometimes conflicted views on the subject find far less enthusiasm for complete repeal. For example, the Pew Research Center has simply asked Americans what “Congress should do with the health care law, expand it, leave it as is [or] repeal it?” They found 38 percent choosing repeal, 20 who want to leave it alone and **33 percent favoring an expansion of the law.** A majority of Americans do want the AHCA **or something more.** ---
**Author:** ![Filmbufflistener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ac8455/32.png) [@Filmbufflistener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filmbufflistener)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/73 "2012-05-23T03:51:14Z")
He’s an Obomaination he seeks war when someone else seeks peace. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/74 "2012-05-23T03:54:39Z")
What? (And why am I asking?) ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/75 "2012-05-23T04:19:15Z")
Maybe **Filmbufflistener** ’s a loyal follower of [Michael Steele](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20009569-503544.html)? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/76 "2012-05-23T04:22:13Z")
> [@Filmbufflistener](#): > > He’s an Obomaination he seeks war when someone else seeks peace. 1. Since when, and how, does he seek war when someone else seeks peace? 2. [Spell it right.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_Nation) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/77 "2012-05-23T04:26:08Z")
> [@Filmbufflistener](#): > > He’s an Obomaination he seeks war when someone else seeks peace. Perhaps you should find a thread where you can play to your strengths. Maybe resurrecting 5 year old zombie threads about films or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/78 "2012-05-23T05:17:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Aren’t white, or aren’t black? Oh now **BG** , surely you’ve heard of the [one-drop rule](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule). I think that’s clearly what good ol’ Ron and Mary mean. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/79 "2012-05-23T07:34:00Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > Islam… Israel At war with Israel for centuries? Or does Islam just convene and attack the most convenient target? > [@JBGUSA](#): > > He talked a good line but did nothing. Operation Infinite Reach? ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525/80 "2012-05-23T14:05:31Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > \ > > Katrina - The handling of natural disasters (and man-made ones such as 911) are primarily a state and local function. > > \ Says who, and since when? Apparently you’re not familiar with the San Francisco Earthquake of 1906 where the U.S. Army was critical in immediately helping fight the fire and rescue lives. The commander there, General Frederick Funston, didn’t wait for orders from Washington, he immediately took charge and ordered his men and equipment in to provide much needed aid. [Link](http://www.sfmuseum.org/1906/cosmo.html) That’s a much better history than the performance of “Heck of a Job” Brownie’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-most-divisive-figure-in-us-politics/622525.md?page=5)