# Obama nominates Elena Kagan for Supreme Court **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 7, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669 "2010-05-07T18:56:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/121 "2010-05-11T04:39:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The bottom line is that the days of judges being confirmed unanimously or by 9-to-1 margins are over and it’s not going to happen again for the foreseeable future. That’s my point. I believe this is the result of the GOP deciding to pander to their not so intelligent base. So far the Democrats have not voted against any moderates, but 31 Republicans could not bring themselves to vote for Sotomayor. And I consider Breyer and Ginsburg moderates when compared with Marshall or Brennan. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/122 "2010-05-11T04:42:04Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Here are the confirmation votes for centrist Justices: Stephen Breyer (87–9), David Souter (90–9), Ruth Bader Ginsburg (96–3), Anthony Kennedy (97–0), and Sandra Day O’Connor (99–0). > > The vote for Sotomayor was 68–31. I believe this was the result of Republican politicians pandering to brain dead constituents. When Democrats vote against a moderate and qualified judicial nominee then I will assume that they’re pandering too. > > Opposition to a conservative nominee like Roberts is not the same thing as opposing a well qualified moderate. Ginsurg is a moderate? What was the confirmation vote for Scalia? BTW… Conservative, Liberal and Moderate are different types of qualifiers than is the term “qualified”. If a candidate is qualified, opposition to him or her is political. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/123 "2010-05-11T04:45:39Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > To rule in favour of the rights of people as per the Tenth Amendment. What do you think the Tenth Amendment means? Here’s a follow up question: Do states have the right to ban firearms under the Tenth Amendment? ETA you clearly don’t have any Constitutional understanding of _Roe_. You appear to have the impression that Justices should rule according to some kind of personal ideology or philosophy and ignore the Constitution if it gives you what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/124 "2010-05-11T04:48:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What was the confirmation vote for Scalia? 98-0. I won’t put Roberts out there as a moderate because he isn’t, but he had all the qualifications anybody could ask for. This looks like a double standard. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/125 "2010-05-11T05:06:55Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I’m glad **Mr. Moto** brought up the case of Rehnquist, but I don’t know that the exception proves the rule. It might also beg the question of what the bare minimum level of experience is required, the answer to which I’m sure varies considerably depending upon whether one voted for the President who makes the nomination, or whether one did not. Nope. I’d apply the same rule for any nominee, when considering whether to confirm (support confirmation, since I’m not a Senator). And I’d vote to confirm Kagan–though I would not have nominated her. The experience thing is overrated at this level of the game. Being a SCOTUS Justice is mostly reading briefs, voting on dispositions, managing law clerks, and writing opinions. Anybody with a law degree can do it. For that matter, anyone with some degree of scholarly aptitude could do it. Procedurally, she has very little chance to really screw up. I think individual justices sometimes rule on emergency motions, but otherwise, she’s One of Nine, with a full staff to help her find the office supplies, explain protocol, and help her with the robe. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/126 "2010-05-11T05:15:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > 98-0. I won’t put Roberts out there as a moderate because he isn’t, but he had all the qualifications anybody could ask for. This looks like a double standard. “Moderate” is in the eye of the beholder. There isn’t any kind of objective measure for that label. “Qualified” can at least be measured against standards like academic achievement, ABA ratings, etc. So, we have people who are at least nominally “qualified”. Then we have the political argument about who is liberal, moderate or conservative. What makes an allegedly “moderate” candidate any better than a “liberal” or “conservative”? And if we all cheering for our own political side, what makes a conservative “brain dead” for wanting only conservatives on the bench but liberals “not brain dead” for accepting liberals and moderates? Seems to me that one can very well argue that conservatives know what they want and liberals don’t. Which group is “brain dead”? Now, I wouldn’t call either group “brain dead”. But I recognize that one BS characterization is no better than another BS characterization. “Brain dead” is just a term to smear the other team with-- not a term that lends itself to reasoned debate. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/127 "2010-05-11T05:32:16Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Nope. I’d apply the same rule for any nominee, when considering whether to confirm (support confirmation, since I’m not a Senator). And I’d vote to confirm Kagan–though I would not have nominated her. > > The experience thing is overrated at this level of the game. Being a SCOTUS Justice is mostly reading briefs, voting on dispositions, managing law clerks, and writing opinions. Anybody with a law degree can do it. For that matter, anyone with some degree of scholarly aptitude could do it. Procedurally, she has very little chance to really screw up. I think individual justices sometimes rule on emergency motions, but otherwise, she’s One of Nine, with a full staff to help her find the office supplies, explain protocol, and help her with the robe. To the best of my knowledge the only time an Associate Justice acts alone in a professional capacity is when issuing a stay (not necessarily of a death sentence) within the circuit that is his/her special responsibility. There may be something else, but it’s rare. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/128 "2010-05-11T05:42:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And if we all cheering for our own political side, what makes a conservative “brain dead” for wanting only conservatives on the bench but liberals “not brain dead” for accepting liberals and moderates? Seems to me that one can very well argue that conservatives know what they want and liberals don’t. Which group is “brain dead”? > > Now, I wouldn’t call either group “brain dead”. But I recognize that one BS characterization is no better than another BS characterization. “Brain dead” is just a term to smear the other team with-- not a term that lends itself to reasoned debate. FWIW, I wasn’t calling all conservatives brain dead. I only said Republicans were going to vote against Kagan to pander to their brain dead voters (as opposed to their more intelligent voters.) Since candidates more to the left of Sotomayor were confirmed with little opposition before, what sense does it make to oppose her unless you’re doing it strictly to oppose a President from the opposing party. I consider that kind of logic something that only brain dead voters would adhere to. While Roberts was qualified, he was substantially more conservative than the nominees in the past, and he was replacing a swing vote. It made sense for someone to oppose him. But why would the GOP oppose someone like Sotomayor, who was as moderate as Souter, when Souter was confirmed 90-9? I think it’s because they can’t explain to some of their voters that an Obama nominee can be moderate. Or because they simply want to score some cheap political points. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/129 "2010-05-11T13:28:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Just out of curiosity, would you describe Obama’s opposition to John Roberts as flexing his liberal bona fides by bitching about a Bush monmiee to his “brain dead” constituents? Best typo of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/130 "2010-05-11T13:33:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I just realized that when Kagan replaces Stevens there will be **not one WASP left** on the SCOTUS! :eek: Yup. If she’s confirmed, there would be three Jews and six Catholics on the court. The Know Nothings must be spinning in their graves! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/131 "2010-05-11T15:02:06Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > To the best of my knowledge the only time an Associate Justice acts alone in a professional capacity is when issuing a stay (not necessarily of a death sentence) within the circuit that is his/her special responsibility. There may be something else, but it’s rare. They’re allowed to perform marriages individually. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/132 "2010-05-11T15:24:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My guess is that they’ll try to bring it up without mentioning it explicitly. They’ll use code about “values,” or say that she’s “out of the mainstream.” [The American Family Association certainly isn’t dancing around it](http://action.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147494169): > [@](#): > > It’s time we got over the myth that what a public servant does in his private life is of no consequence. We cannot afford to have another sexually abnormal individual in a position of important civic responsibility, especially when that individual could become one of nine votes in an out of control oligarchy that constantly usurps constitutional prerogatives to unethically and illegally legislate for 300 million Americans. > > The stakes are too high. Social conservatives must rise up as one and say no lesbian is qualified to sit on the Supreme Court. Will they? I think Senate Republicans will get around it by insisting that it’s not about her being a lesbian, but that she won’t answer questions about it. “We don’t care if she’s a lesbian! Really, we don’t! But why does she act like she has something to hide?” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/133 "2010-05-11T15:31:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What do you think the Tenth Amendment means? > > Here’s a follow up question: Do states have the right to ban firearms under the Tenth Amendment? > > ETA you clearly don’t have any Constitutional understanding of _Roe_. You appear to have the impression that Justices should rule according to some kind of personal ideology or philosophy and ignore the Constitution if it gives you what you want. Yeah, Curtis. What are you, a liberal?? And Diogenes – why don’t we hold off on answering that Tenth Amendment question until the Court answers the Second Amendment incorporation question from this term’s McDonald v. Chicago? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/134 "2010-05-11T15:47:13Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > I think Senate Republicans will get around it by insisting that it’s not about her being a lesbian, but that she won’t answer questions about it. The Senate Republicans can vote against her for other reasons. If they make it clear it’s about her rumored sexuality, they’ll look like monumental assholes. It’s not a winning strategy for them. I do wonder if she’ll choose to say anything about it if this continues, because right now the options being presented are ‘she’s out and proud’ vs. ‘she’s in the closet,’ when in reality she probably just hasn’t addressed told the press. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/135 "2010-05-11T16:15:53Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The Know Nothings must be spinning in their graves! 😃 Or holding signs and listening to Palin speeches at rallies. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/136 "2010-05-11T16:39:21Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Or holding signs and listening to Palin speeches at rallies. 😉 Well, in fairness, I don’t see anything being made of her Jewishness by the GOP so far. Nor do I remember that being an issue for either Ginsburg or Breyer (the same could not be said of Louis Brandeis and the battle over his nomination in 1916, which got pretty ugly). ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/137 "2010-05-11T21:40:24Z")
I find it hilarious that liberals who were prepared to use any and every means to gun down Robert Bork (successfully) and Clarence Thomas (unsuccessfully) are so concerned about the mean, nasty twicks the Republicans are liable to use against Kagan. Earth to liberals: Kagan will sail through the confirmation process. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/138 "2010-05-11T21:43:37Z")
Bork’s opposition was based on his views and his record, not his appearance or his sexuality. What were you including under “any and every means”? :dubious: If you want a false equivalence to go over here, you have to do much better than that. Much. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/139 "2010-05-11T21:47:56Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Well, in fairness, I don’t see anything being made of her Jewishness by the GOP so far. True, the modern reactionary view is that “they worship Jesus in their own way”. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669/140 "2010-05-11T21:54:00Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Best typo of the day. Mo-nom-i-nee! Do doo do do doo! Mo-nom-i-nee Do doo do do Mo-nom-i-nee Do doo do do do. Do do do. Do do do do do do do do do do. MO-NOM-I-NEE As to Kagan, I’m distressed that she has very little actual experience in the courtroom and that she has taken an extreme position on the limits of executive power. I don’t know enough about her yet, but those two things would make me very reluctant to support her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-nominates-elena-kagan-for-supreme-court/538669.md?page=8)