# Obama on Guantanamo: damned if he does... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 4, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371 "2011-01-04T15:18:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371/21 "2011-01-07T14:37:43Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > The president could at least present to some of the prisoners a list of countries that match the requirements listed in post 3, and ask them which of these countries they want to try to be released to. I think the President is trying like mad to do this. This is the “out” in all this, but it’s difficult. Like the OP said, there’s a list of requirements that must be met. I don’t think they are unnecessarily stringent though. I mean, you don’t want to be shipping guys off to Yemen and Somalia. However, even if the Sec. of Defense selects a country, that country still has to be willing to accept a Guantanamo detainee. This is were you throw money at that country hand over fist. I wonder if this bill limits the ability to do that (the article just mentions limits funds to transfer _into_ the US). For instance, some of the of the [detainees (Uighurs) released in 2009](http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-san-francisco/guantanamo-detainees-released-to-bermuda) went to Bermuda! Others Albania. My point is, I think there are plenty of countries that meet the “stringent” requirements of where the detainees can be released. I don’t think those countries want the detainees. Obama should be good at getting countries to accept them, and placing Chinese detainees in Bermuda and Albania seems proof of that. However, take KLM, say he’s tried and not guilty. It’s perfectly acceptable for immigration to not allow him to stay in the US. Who’s going to take him then? Nobody. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371/22 "2011-01-07T15:04:33Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Surely legislation making it more difficult to close Guantanamo is good for President Obama. > > His naive but sincere promise during his campaign to close Gitmo probably has hurt him among the **Der Trihs** crowd, who were unable to separate out sincere naïveté from actual reality. What better way out than to be able to say, “Well, I tried, but those dadburn Congressmen would not let me do it?” In what sense was his promise naive? There’s no rational reason that Gitmo can’t be closed. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371/23 "2011-01-07T15:17:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Or grab a few Republican leaders and put them in Gitmo - after all, there’s [more evidence](http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/01/03/fran_townsend_terrorism/index.html) for them supporting terrorism as there is for many of our victims - and point out that the law now forbids him from letting them out. Does it have to be just Republicans? If the members of the House and the Senate unilaterally support renegeing on the government’s obligation to not hold people indefinitely without trial, they _all_ deserve to be in there. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371/24 "2011-01-07T19:52:06Z")
I love how, while Bush was in office Democrats were saying how evil Guantanamo Bay is, how it needs to be shut down, and question the guilt of a lot of the inmates. Then Obama gets in office and tries to make good on his promise to shut it down, and all of a sudden, [these are the worst of the worst and you won’t release them in our back yard!](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/us/politics/20detain.html) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371/25 "2011-01-07T19:57:25Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > I love how, while Bush was in office Democrats were saying how evil Guantanamo Bay is, how it needs to be shut down, and question the guilt of a lot of the inmates. Please cite this, specifically, that a specific Democrat has changed his/her mind on this. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371/26 "2011-01-07T20:22:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In what sense was his promise naive? There’s no rational reason that Gitmo can’t be closed. I don’t think his promise is naive, but it’s much more difficult to actually close it than it appears. And I’m one who thinks it should be closed. But the point of this thread is that there is a reason why it cannot be closed: Congress has proposed a law that prohibits its closure. Like it or not, that’s what’s on the President’s desk. The question now is, should the President obey the law, or assert some Constitutional authority that this law doesn’t actually bind his hands? > [@Nobody](#): > > I love how, while Bush was in office Democrats were saying how evil Guantanamo Bay is, how it needs to be shut down, and question the guilt of a lot of the inmates. Then Obama gets in office and tries to make good on his promise to shut it down, and all of a sudden, these are the worst of the worst and you won’t release them in our back yard! The article you quoted was from last year. I can understand Democrats blocking funds the closure of Guantanamo until they know what the plan would be. In fact, that’s fairly reasonable, in one sense. I do not think that a blanket prohibition on transferring detainees, even for trial, is a good idea. It seems that this provision was pushed by Republicans during the closing days of Congress in order to get a temporary funding measure completed so the government wouldn’t shut down. If you support this proposed law to keep Guantanamo open (perhaps forever), why do you not support putting terrorists on trial for their actions so they can face real justice? I would probably pop a bottle of bubbly if KSM is ever convicted and subject to the death penalty. But nooooo, some soft-on-crime conservatives never want that day to come. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371/27 "2011-01-07T20:29:31Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Please cite this, specifically, that a specific Democrat has changed his/her mind on this. Before I do that, did you follow US media during the time Bush was in office? If not, I can understand how you wouldn’t know that the majority of Democrats were against Guantanamo and wanted it shut down, and then, as the link shows, changed their tune when it actually came to closing it. But if you have been following the news, then I find it very hard to believe that you were unaware of all this. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371/28 "2011-01-07T20:35:55Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The article you quoted was from last year. When Democrats were in full control and could have worked on a plan to close it. > [@](#): > > I can understand Democrats blocking funds the closure of Guantanamo until they know what the plan would be. In fact, that’s fairly reasonable, in one sense. Did they have a plan? All I saw out of them were harsh criticisms of Bush and Guantanamo, and I don’t necessarily disagree with all of them, but their attitudes seemed to change when Obama got in office and actually wanted to close it down. And personally, I’m OK with closing it down. In my personal opinion a lot of Democratic opposition was mostly political as it allowed them to score easy points by bashing Bush. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371/29 "2011-01-07T20:36:38Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Before I do that, did you follow US media during the time Bush was in office? > > If not, I can understand how you wouldn’t know that the majority of Democrats were against Guantanamo and wanted it shut down, and then, as the link shows, changed their tune when it actually came to closing it. > > But if you have been following the news, then I find it very hard to believe that you were unaware of all this. I follow the US media and there were Democrats for and against closing Guantanamo and some on the left for and against closing Guantanamo. But, if, say Dennis Kucinich was and is against keeping it open but, say, Max Baucus was and is for keeping it open, it seems unfair to say that while Bush was in office “Democrats” were saying how evil it is, but now that Obama is president “Democrats” want to keep it open, if those are different Democrats. What you said may be technically true, but pretty disingenuous. However, if some Democrats really did take the stances you seem to claim, I think that’s pretty terrible and will vote against that kind of transparent partisanship whenever I can. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371/30 "2011-01-07T20:39:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I don’t think his promise is naive, but it’s much more difficult to actually close it than it appears. And I’m one who thinks it should be closed. > > But the point of this thread is that there is a reason why it cannot be closed: Congress has proposed a law that prohibits its closure. Like it or not, that’s what’s on the President’s desk. > > The question now is, should the President obey the law, or assert some Constitutional authority that this law doesn’t actually bind his hands? I’m saying that when he _made_ the promise there was no reason to think Gitmo couldn’t be closed. Surely he could not have foreseen that legislators would start behaving like Gitmo detainees were nuclear waste. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371/31 "2011-01-07T20:48:37Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Did they have a plan? Congress (including many Democrats) were telling Obama, “First come up with the plan, then show it to us, then if it is a good plan, you will get your money.” Your question seems to reflect a mistaken notion that congressional Democrats and the White House are the same person, and “they” are not. > [@](#): > > All I saw out of them were harsh criticisms of Bush and Guantanamo, and I don’t necessarily disagree with all of them, but their attitudes seemed to change when Obama got in office and actually wanted to close it down. As I’ve said many times before, I think Bush screwed this up so much that he made it ridiculously hard to close the prison. Bush deserves all the criticism he can get, because his mistakes have a way of taking on a life of their own (see: Guantanamo, the budget deficit, the economy, Iraq, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371/32 "2011-01-09T13:18:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Who said I ever believed Obama about anything? Like the rest of the Democrats he’s a weak coward and almost as right wing as the Republicans. And I’ve been calling him things like that since his inauguration if not earlier. > > And what makes you think the “ **Der Trihs** crowd” is going to believe him for a moment? I think you have no understanding just how deep the contempt for him has become among much of the left. No one is going to care at this point what he says or what excuses he uses. He’s supporting Bush style polices because he agrees with them, not because the big bad Republicans are making him. Good on you for calling him out like the right-winger he is, then (at least in comparison with you). My apologies for not remembering just how far out in left field you play. I formally retract the “ **Der Trihs** ” qualifiers in my earlier post and replace it with “starry-eyed liberal.” Again, I am sorry. You are absolutely correct in protesting one poster painting the position of another. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-on-guantanamo-damned-if-he-does/566371.md?page=1)