# Obama or Media: Who Is More Responsible for Perpetuating Such a Lie to Seniors **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 19, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985 "2012-08-19T17:55:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/41 "2012-08-20T03:28:22Z")
> [@TheSlapIsBack](#): > > To my knowledge those biased Obama hating right wing radicals at Fox News have not either. > > Doesnt mean it is not a story. Just a story that is being covered up Piffle. If it is anti-Obama and Fox news is not running it as a lead story, then it really is not a story. Any other conclusion is absurdly unreal. (Heck, Fox continues to run Birther bullshit.) No cover-up need be postulated. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/42 "2012-08-20T03:30:41Z")
> [@TheSlapIsBack](#): > > I find it really strange that there are so many who want me to summarize or clarify or explain or elaborate etc… > Seems to me that there is a concerted effort to avoid simply discussing the topic. There is no topic. There is a mild rant, mostly incoherent, that is liable to be moved to **The BBQ Pit** for lack of a coherent thesis to debate unless you decide to actually make a case for your topic. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/43 "2012-08-20T03:48:32Z")
> [@TheSlapIsBack](#): > > Should I have posted in the Elections section. > > I find it really strange that there are so many who want me to summarize or clarify or explain or elaborate etc… > Seems to me that there is a concerted effort to avoid simply discussing the topic. What topic? > [@](#): > > I am having trouble figuring out if I posted in the wrong place or if people genuinely refuse to accept a disagreeing point of view. What point of view? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/44 "2012-08-20T04:41:49Z")
I’m outraged! [http://www.drudgereport.com/](http://www.drudgereport.com/) What do you godless loser commies think? ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/45 "2012-08-20T06:02:29Z")
Swiming against the tide, although a liberal, I don’t have much trouble figuring out what the debate is about. It’s right there in the blog article linked by the OP. The argument is that the Medicare demonstration project is a political ploy to defer important effects of the Affordable Health Care Act (Obamacare ) until after the coming election. That said, I think the answer to the OP is twofold. First, the assertion that the demonstration project is illegal is very thin. Watch that first "if,’ it’s a doozy. Were it otherwise, the Republicans, Fox and others would be all over it. Second, the argument that the project won’t achieve its stated research purpose - the nub of the [GAO report](http://www.gao.gov/assets/590/589473.pdf) linked in the blog - is so complex (even if true, and the the main point of contention) that it doesn’t make good news fodder. No lie. No conspiracy. Just too wonky for prime time. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/46 "2012-08-20T13:40:28Z")
> [@TheSlapIsBack](#): > > I find it really strange that there are so many who want me to summarize or clarify or explain or elaborate etc… > Seems to me that there is a concerted effort to avoid simply discussing the topic. …said without a hint of irony. > [@](#): > > I am having trouble figuring out if I posted in the wrong place or if people genuinely refuse to accept a disagreeing point of view. I will not accept the idea that some kind clarification needs to be made. Your opening few posts were basically “Obama is doing something really bad, here go read this blog about it, but I refuse to say what’s bad about it.” Then when others looked into it, they’ve reported here that there doesn’t seem to be much of a story, and certainly not one that plays well on TV news. Still, you refuse to make an argument for your point of view. > [@](#): > > There are plenty of people who have had no issue discussing. Apparently you’re not one of them, because you refuse to discuss the actual issue, and are simply complaining about others not being willing to agree with a point that you haven’t even taken the trouble to make. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/47 "2012-08-20T18:24:30Z")
> [@TheSlapIsBack](#): > > Of course he is bad. Bad for everybody not just seniors. I did want to see how blind supporters respond in light of the fact that they are members of the party that apparently cares sooooo much about seniors but is actively deceiving them. > > Don’t worry. I am not expecting an honest reply or any substantive response. > It is all in the posts already. Soooo, something tells me that you are not actually a new poster but the sock puppet of someone who got banned. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/48 "2012-08-20T21:29:34Z")
Put it this way. If the President did not do this, then Medicare Advantage cuts go through in October. Florida goes red. The issue is heavily covered here in local papers. If the President did do this, then the cuts go through in January, but Medicare Advantage providers can still inform seniors that their coverage is being curtailed before the election if they want to get revenge on the President. Either way, I have faith in the voters. I don’t think seniors are unaware of what’s happening to Medicare Advantage and if the President is making a lame attempt to hide it until after the election, his intelligence is highly overrated. ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Charlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7ea924/32.png) [@Victor\_Charlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Victor_Charlie)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/49 "2012-08-20T21:43:09Z")
> [@TheSlapIsBack](#): > > I ask these 2 simple questions and everybody starts short circuiting or suddenly suffers from a deficit of opinion unless it is a personal insult directed at the OP. But you didn’t ask “2 simple questions.” You presented a couple of begging the question fallacies where you presuppose the answer within the body of your so-called question. You can’t get honest debate from dishonest questions. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/50 "2012-08-20T22:59:13Z")
**TheSlapIsBack** if your intent is to start a discussion, the first step would be to, you know, start a discussion. You need to stick your neck out and actually express an opinion. As it stands your op has less substance than a Seinfeld joke. “Hey, whats the deal with [del]airline food[/del] Obama?” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/51 "2012-08-21T02:36:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Soooo, something tells me that you are not actually a new poster but the sock puppet of someone who got banned. Do not accuse other posters of being sock puppets or trolls outside The BBQ Pit. If you actually believe that to be the case, use the Report function. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/52 "2012-08-22T03:42:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Put it this way. If the President did not do this, then Medicare Advantage cuts go through in October. Florida goes red. The issue is heavily covered here in local papers. > > If the President did do this, then the cuts go through in January, but Medicare Advantage providers can still inform seniors that their coverage is being curtailed before the election if they want to get revenge on the President. > > Either way, I have faith in the voters. I don’t think seniors are unaware of what’s happening to Medicare Advantage and if the President is making a lame attempt to hide it until after the election, his intelligence is highly overrated. Can _you_ summarize the issue? What exactly is Obama supposedly doing to Medicare Advantage? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/53 "2012-08-22T04:26:41Z")
> [@TheSlapIsBack](#): > > Not going to do your work for you sir. If you don’t feel like informing yourself on issues that reflect negatively on your party or ideology… you don’t have to respond at all :dubious: You **do** understand that’s not how it works around here, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/54 "2012-08-22T06:41:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Can _you_ summarize the issue? What exactly is Obama supposedly doing to Medicare Advantage? A large portion of the “savings” in Medicare comes from cutting subsidies to Medicare Advantage insurers. The assumption is that they’ll just see their profits reduced and not stop serving seniors. The administration isn’t taking any chances though. They’ve spent an $8 billion discretionary fund to put off Medicare Advantage cuts until January. Bill Nelson was particularly worried about MA cuts in Florida(he’s our senior Senator), so he got a special exemption for Florida. But that got taken out in reconciliation after the outcry about votebuying. Exactly how many seniors will lose their benefits is unknown, but the ones that will lose them will probably find out in October, and it’s doubtful that the administration’s changes will delay the cancellation notices. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985/55 "2012-08-22T07:48:08Z")
I dunno… I guess not being American means I don’t have the necessary familiarity with the base issues, i.e. how the American Medicare system and its related programs are funded and run. i.e. I tried reading adaher’s post and can’t make heads or tails of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-or-media-who-is-more-responsible-for-perpetuating-such-a-lie-to-seniors/631985.md?page=2)