# Obama-Palin debate in 2012--strategy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2010, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-palin-debate-in-2012-strategy/548297 "2010-07-28T12:08:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-palin-debate-in-2012-strategy/548297/101 "2010-07-29T20:48:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I considered publicly committing to voting for Obama if he actually cuts the deficit in half and reduces unemployment to under 7.5 and if inflation remains low, but I have no idea who will run against him in 2012. But maybe the GOP will get control of the Senate at least and will reduce the deficit no matter what Obama does, as they did with Clinton, and then I will not consider his promise to have been kept. Well, wait a sec. It won’t count if congress can get the credit? I understand the president has relatively little independent influence over the budget (i.e. he largely has to work with congress to get things done, occasionally threatening a veto, but while he can strongly suggest budget items or cuts, it is and always has been congress’s ball), but this sounds vaguely like a escape clause. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-palin-debate-in-2012-strategy/548297/102 "2010-07-30T08:57:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@Stoneburg](#): > > > > Being interviewed is a high pressure situation, I don’t think the average person would do better than Palin. Then there’s reporting bias to account for. > > Probably not. That’s just one of the reasons the average person isn’t qualified to be President of the United States. > As for reporting bias, how exactly was that a factor? Did somebody fail to explain to Palin how an interview worked? That she would be asked questions and would expected to answer them? The problem wasn’t that Couric was asking her legitimate questions. The problem was Palin had no idea what she thought. > [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > Watch the video of the Couric interview again. If there was any bias there, it was Couric asking simple, basic, and downright easy questions because Palin was at the time a political newcomer. I don’t think we have the same idea about what “reporting bias” mean. To me it is a scientific term and doesn’t mean “biased reporters”. > [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > > [@Stoneburg](#): > > > > Being interviewed is a high pressure situation, I don’t think the average person would do better than Palin. > > Best response: > > [QUOTE=Jon Stewart] > I know that elite is a “bad word” in politics, and you want to go bowling and “throw back” a few beers, but the job you’re applying for, if you get it and it goes well, THEY MIGHT CARVE YOUR HEAD INTO A MOUNTAIN. If you don’t actually think you’re better than us, then WHAT THE \ ARE YOU DOING? ("\ added since this isn’t the Pit.) [/QUOTE] Exactly. Average isn’t bad, it’s just not good enough to be the leader of the worlds most powerful nation. You should have the best leader out of a sample size of over a hundred million people. He or she should be exceptional, not average. And that’s elitist. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-palin-debate-in-2012-strategy/548297/103 "2010-07-30T16:59:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Just out of curiosity, did you vote for Bush the second time around? If so, which of his campaign promises did you hold him to? **Shodan**? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-palin-debate-in-2012-strategy/548297/104 "2010-07-30T18:15:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > Just out of curiosity, did you vote for Bush the second time around? If so, which of his campaign promises did you hold him to? > > **Shodan**? Why do we care about what people expected of Bush, again? If the point is to call **Shodan** irrational or inconsitent, then from the perspective of this thread and forum that’s just a pointless ad-hominem. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-palin-debate-in-2012-strategy/548297/105 "2010-07-30T18:51:44Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Why do we care about what people expected of Bush, again? > > If the point is to call **Shodan** irrational or inconsitent, then from the perspective of this thread and forum that’s just a pointless ad-hominem. Because there’s a judgement issue. If Bush supporters thought Bush was a good candidate in 2000 and 2004 but now realize he did a bad job that demonstrates their political judgement can be faulty. Somebody who knew in 2000 and 2004 that Bush was a bad candidate has been proven right by history - they spotted that he would be a bad President. So when somebody is offering their views in 2010 about Palin’s ability as a potential President, you should go back and check out their record for judging candidates. If they were right about Bush in 2000 and 2004 then that’s evidence they might be right about Palin in 2012. If they made a mistake in 2000 and 2004 then they might be wrong again in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-palin-debate-in-2012-strategy/548297/106 "2010-07-30T18:57:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@begbert2](#): > > > > Why do we care about what people expected of Bush, again? > > > > If the point is to call **Shodan** irrational or inconsitent, then from the perspective of this thread and forum that’s just a pointless ad-hominem. > > Because there’s a judgement issue. If Bush supporters thought Bush was a good candidate in 2000 and 2004 but now realize he did a bad job that demonstrates their political judgement can be faulty. Somebody who knew in 2000 and 2004 that Bush was a bad candidate has been proven right by history - they spotted that he would be a bad President. > > So when somebody is offering their views in 2010 about Palin’s ability as a potential President, you should go back and check out their record for judging candidates. If they were right about Bush in 2000 and 2004 then that’s evidence they might be right about Palin in 2012. If they made a mistake in 2000 and 2004 then they might be wrong again in 2012. Okay, but be careful - you can’t actually assume that people who opposed Bush did so because of clear-eyed insight into the weakness of his leadership ability. They may have done so for completely different reasons, such as being Democrat or thinking that he might not be that fun to have a beer with after all. Heck, they might have been afraid he might be _too_ competent - and thus have steered things too far in the conservative direction. So while a person who wholeheartedly lauded Bush’s competence does have suspect judgement, it remains the case that the rest of us might not be any better. Maybe we’re _all_ terrible judges, for all we know. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-palin-debate-in-2012-strategy/548297/107 "2010-07-30T18:57:51Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Why do we care about what people expected of Bush, again? > > If the point is to call **Shodan** irrational or inconsitent, then from the perspective of this thread and forum that’s just a pointless ad-hominem. Because **Shodan** takes it upon himself to criticize [del]Democrats[/del] Obama. I have no objection to his doing so, of course, but I think it’s reasonable to weigh his views on Obama against his views on other politicians. ETA: You may be correct that the question is outside of the scope of the debate, but it followed from his own post. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-palin-debate-in-2012-strategy/548297/108 "2010-07-30T22:06:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, wait a sec. It won’t count if congress can get the credit? It depends on what he does. If the GOP takes over Congress and reduces the deficit, and Obama fights them every step of the way, then no, he won’t get the credit. Think of how welfare reform went down. Clinton was President, and he signed the bill, but he doesn’t deserve any credit for it - he vetoed it twice and was forced into signing it because he wanted to be re-elected. Same thing with balancing the budget, almost - he forced a government shut down because he wanted to postpone what was necessary until after the elections. But it is a point I have made before - Obama has had almost two years, with his party in control of Congress, to do what he claims he wants to do. And reducing the deficit has, to say the least, not been a priority. If he can’t do it now, it is going to be pretty hard to accept the excuse that he couldn’t do it because the GOP controls Congress. Because we are currently out of the recession. If Obama is a Keynesian, he would be starting to reduce the deficit and not jacking it up to a trillion and a half or more. > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > Just out of curiosity, did you vote for Bush the second time around? If so, which of his campaign promises did you hold him to? It’s a legitimate point. I guess the answer is, the important one. The issue in 2004 was security. The economy and the deficit are the big issue now. But the question can be easily turned around - if Obama fails to keep his promise to reduce the deficit to less than $535 billion, will you vote for him anyway? Do you think you have legitimate reasons for doing so? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-palin-debate-in-2012-strategy/548297/109 "2010-07-31T02:01:31Z")
1. What specific promise did he keep vis-a-vis national security? He certainly didn’t keep any of the ones he made during the 2000 election. 2. I probably won’t be able to vote in 2012. I’m a permanent resident, not a citizen. However, the deficit is fairly low on my list of priorities, since economic performance is largely unrelated to who occupies the White House; thus, had I a vote, it would be predicated on social policy. The jury’s still out on that one: DADT is, rather implausibly, still in effect; Guantanamo is still stuffed with people who have not been charged with crimes; and health care reform, though a step in the right direction, wasn’t much to write home about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-palin-debate-in-2012-strategy/548297.md?page=5)