# Obama passing the ball to Congress for now - predictions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 1, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710 "2013-09-01T03:42:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/241 "2013-09-06T21:40:12Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I think a big part of the general disapproval of action against Syria is due to 90% of the country just flat-out being misinformed about it in one way or another. I’m not saying that everybody is going to line up behind the President on this after he lays out his case on TV Tuesday night, but once people here it broken down exactly what he wants to do and why he wants to do it - I think you’ll see public opinion change pretty dramatically. Most people just like to be included. Bullshit. If ever the American public was informed about a conflict, it’s now. Too many in a row to ignore due to you usual 6:00 o’clock MSN brainwash. This time, it seems to me, Americans want the real lowdown --what Feinstein saw that made her turn against her constituents and yet didn’t do a thing to those that were against this attack from the start. Let the common people judge – is that not what democracy is all about. What does Obama have to fear? He’s not omnipotent, surely he can admit a mistake now and then – especially one that has some of the most powerful nations in the world on a hair-trigger. It’s not about “saving face” it’s about survival. And surely you know that Syria poses fuck-all a threat to the US. No matter how you try to sell it. Mosquito vs Elephant is just not realistic. And US citizens know that all too damn well. Now, stir the hornet’s nest and get Iran and Russia (and possibly China) in there and all bets are off. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/242 "2013-09-06T21:45:30Z")
> [@gravitycrash](#): > > [It just keeps getting worse](http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/06/20361940-white-house-asks-pentagon-for-expanded-syria-target-list-officials-say?lite) > > What the hell? I’m beginning to think that Obama is losing it. It’s way too late for bluffing Mr. President. Your credibility is shot and you just guaranteed a no vote in Congress. > > I guess he can go ahead despite Congress but oh man he can kiss whatever agenda he had for his second term goodbye. Something stopped Obama from going ahead already … what was it? Ego perhaps … the blame game? Three years and four months is a long time for a lame duck president, don’t you think? uhmm that comes to (40) forty months left doesn’t it 🙂 Plus the budget crisis looming in less than 40 days and the republicans on the war path not to fund Obama care. These are exciting times I just hope it doesn’t include war … ---
**Author:** ![Lion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/57b2e6/32.png) [@Lion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lion)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/243 "2013-09-06T21:56:41Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Bullshit. If ever the American public was informed about a conflict, it’s now. Too many in a row to ignore due to you usual 6:00 o’clock MSN brainwash. This time, it seems to me, Americans want the real lowdown --what Feinstein saw that made her turn against her constituents and yet didn’t do a thing to those that were against this attack from the start. > > Let the common people judge – is that not what democracy is all about. What does Obama have to fear? He’s not omnipotent, surely he can admit a mistake now and then – especially one that has some of the most powerful nations in the world on a hair-trigger. It’s not about “saving face” it’s about survival. And surely you know that Syria poses fuck-all a threat to the US. > > No matter how you try to sell it. Mosquito vs Elephant is just not realistic. And US citizens know that all too damn well. Now, stir the hornet’s nest and get Iran and Russia (and possibly China) in there and all bets are off. If anything this new war is opposed because Americans are a little _too informed_. The whole “despot with WMD posing imminent threat to the US” schtick is getting a little long in the tooth. Americans have grown so distrusting and cynical about their government that the boys in charge will have to get a little more creative when it comes to specious reasons for firing up our war machine. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/244 "2013-09-06T22:29:37Z")
I count myself as undecided but most likely against attacking Syria. However, I agree that most people don’t understand the first thing about what’s going on. And I would add that a good number of posters in this thread don’t have a very strong grasp, either. All the discussions of parallels to Iraq (whether it is talking about the cost of occupying that country for most of a decade) or bogus intelligence makes me cringe, because this situation really isn’t like Iraq at all. If you think it is, you don’t know what you’re talking about. It reminds me of people who thought that Gulf War I was going to be another Vietnam; or the people who thought that Gulf War II was going to be like Gulf War I. Well, those people were wrong then, and comparing the Iraq invasion to what’s being proposed today is just as wrong. There are good reasons to be opposed to attacking Syria. Re-arguing what happened in 2003 isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/245 "2013-09-06T22:33:25Z")
From the NYT, reporting about a Republican Rep from OK. If they’re not for it in OK, that’s not good for Obama: > [@](#): > > Mr. Cole would seem a potential candidate to support President Obama on Syria. A pragmatic Congressional veteran, he has been open to compromise with the White House in the past and is not afraid to break with House conservatives. But after portraying himself as leaning against the strike, Mr. Cole on Thursday afternoon came down firmly in the opposition when his office issued a statement announcing that he will vote no. > > Given the intensity of opposition in his district, he said it would take a “road to Damascus experience” to change his mind now. > > “I literally cannot walk across the parking lot without being stopped to talk about this issue,” he said. “I haven’t seen anything quite like this.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/246 "2013-09-06T22:35:43Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I count myself as undecided but most likely against attacking Syria. However, I agree that most people don’t understand the first thing about what’s going on. And I would add that a good number of posters in this thread don’t have a very strong grasp, either. > > All the discussions of parallels to Iraq (whether it is talking about the cost of occupying that country for most of a decade) or bogus intelligence makes me cringe, because this situation really isn’t like Iraq at all. If you think it is, you don’t know what you’re talking about. It reminds me of people who thought that Gulf War I was going to be another Vietnam; or the people who thought that Gulf War II was going to be like Gulf War I. Well, those people were wrong then, and comparing the Iraq invasion to what’s being proposed today is just as wrong. > > There are good reasons to be opposed to attacking Syria. Re-arguing what happened in 2003 isn’t one of them. I agree that I don’t think Obama is going to lead into a ground war in Syria. But there are erie parallels to how they are going about selling this thing to us. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/247 "2013-09-06T22:52:04Z")
The parallels are not substantive, they are superficial to the point of being shiny objects that are attracting people’s attention and distracting from actual issues. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/248 "2013-09-06T22:58:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I agree that I don’t think Obama is going to lead into a ground war in Syria. But there are erie parallels to how they are going about selling this thing to us. Really not up to him, **John**. You start a war and you best be prepared for what you are _not prepared for_. In short, while X might be the most likely response the US will face, Y is certainly not out of the question for Syria and _its_ allies. What will “Y” be? Who the fuck knows. Therein lies the problem. Very little predictable about war – even if you are totally confident of who’ll prevail at the end. Bet Napoleon was more than a bit surprised at the outcome of the [**Peninsular War**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peninsular_War). Guerrilla warfare? Who would have thunk it could cause so much damage? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/249 "2013-09-06T23:11:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > People know we are thinking about bombing a country that is no threat to the US, and that we don’t have any real international support. It’s going to be extremely hard to get past that, but Obama needs to do a LOT more selling if wants Americans to buy something. I don’t envy him his mission, but he chose it himself. How did Obama choose this mission for himself? I believe he understands his role as President of the United States when something like what happened occurred. Is no U.S. punitive response to the use of banned chemical weapons to gas women and children by their government a choice for the leader of the free world to make? I do have to applaud Boehner and Cantor in the House for their very early siding with the President. Apparently they didn’t need any selling to know what is right. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/250 "2013-09-06T23:45:11Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > How did Obama choose this mission for himself? I believe he understands his role as President of the United States when something like what happened occurred. Is no U.S. punitive response to the use of banned chemical weapons to gas women and children by their government a choice for the leader of the free world to make? > > I do have to applaud Boehner and Cantor in the House for their very early siding with the President. > > Apparently they didn’t need any selling to know what is right. Did you punish _yourselves_ for Napalm, Agent Orange or White Phosphorus in Vietnam & Iraq ([**Fallujah**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_use_in_Iraq)) respectively? Or how about giving CWs to Saddam to gas the Kurds? Where was the outrage _then_? Double standards ring a bell? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/251 "2013-09-06T23:47:53Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > How did Obama choose this mission for himself? I believe he understands his role as President of the United States when something like what happened occurred. Is no U.S. punitive response to the use of banned chemical weapons to gas women and children by their government a choice for the leader of the free world to make? No military response is absolutely a choice for the US president. I don’t buy that “leader of the free world” crap. Looks like you are being Fooled By Obama if you favor military action. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/252 "2013-09-07T00:27:12Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > How did Obama choose this mission for himself? I believe he understands his role as President of the United States when something like what happened occurred. Is no U.S. punitive response to the use of banned chemical weapons to gas women and children by their government a choice for the leader of the free world to make? If Obama’s the leader of the free world, why isn’t anyone following? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/253 "2013-09-07T00:28:59Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > If Obama’s the leader of the free world, why isn’t anyone following? Because the rest of the world is not free. Yet, that is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/254 "2013-09-07T00:51:09Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Because the rest of the world is not free. Yet, that is. We need to bomb them into a state of freedom. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/255 "2013-09-07T03:57:47Z")
THe world doesn’t follow because the world has always looked for an excuse not to take action. If a weak country can use WMD without punishment, of what value are anti-WMD treaties? We certainly won’t punish the big countries if we won’t punish the small ones. Arms limitation treaties are worthless. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/256 "2013-09-07T04:01:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Arms limitation treaties are worthless. Especially when the nation in question isn’t a signatory to the treaty. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/257 "2013-09-07T04:30:05Z")
Some issues, like aggression against other nations, do not require a nation to be a signatory. International norms should be enforced, and one of those international redlines is WMD use. I think we also know that if Syria had signed the convention, it wouldn’t change anything. Treaties of that nature are worthless. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/258 "2013-09-07T05:43:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > International norms should be enforced… One International Norm is that a nation does not bomb another nation without approval by the International Community. Normally, that means the UNSC, but some might argue that NATO is another definitive body. Which International Body is calling for military action against Syria? And please remember that enforcement of “international norms” needn’t be military in nature. Still, if such a military action needs to be taken, let’s let another country, like France, have its moment in the sun. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/259 "2013-09-07T05:45:42Z")
No, it does not have to be military, but it does have to be sufficient to stop the crime. The international community lacks credibility because it tends to take face saving actions rather than effective actions. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2013, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/260 "2013-09-07T12:00:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The international community lacks credibility because it tends to take face saving actions rather than effective actions. And bombing Syria is a face-saving action, not an effective one. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710.md?page=14)