# Obama passing the ball to Congress for now - predictions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 1, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710 "2013-09-01T03:42:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/21 "2013-09-01T13:33:18Z")
Obama knows full well that barring a deeply vested personal interest, none of which as ever surfaced so far, the ‘loyal’ opposition prioritizes causing political harm far above any policy or other implications. It’s a matter of first determining what the opposite action (or call to action, etc.) is, then applying a veneer of justification and excoriation against the president’s stated course. Consistency is generally ignored for the sake of political harm. Give the republican’s a chance to say “no” to him? My .02 is that he’s fully aware that there is minimal chance of passage. Presenting it to the Congress sets a good precedent (if it is to be followed) of seeking approval before this type of action (loosely described). It also undercuts a lot of talking points (both real and planned), creating political gains, or at least averting a set of political negatives. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/22 "2013-09-01T13:50:38Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > What _is_ the goal, exactly? 1. To prevent Assad from using CWs again. 2. To show other countries what may happen when you use CWs. (I say may, because we have tolerated their use in the past). 3. To send a signal to Iran about obtaining nukes against the wishes of the international community. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/23 "2013-09-01T14:18:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > 1. To prevent Assad from using CWs again. Obama is not going to engage in any action that will prevent Assad from using chemical weapons. > [@](#): > > 1. To show other countries what may happen when you use CWs. (I say may, because we have tolerated their use in the past). In other words, nothing. > [@](#): > > 1. To send a signal to Iran about obtaining nukes against the wishes of the international community. See above. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/24 "2013-09-01T14:35:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Obama is not going to engage in any action that \*\*will \*\*prevent Assad from using chemical weapons. > In other words, nothing. > See above. > > Regards, > Shodan (bolding mine) The case for action is not based on a ‘will’, but a ‘may’ or ‘likely will’. If Assad’s regime is in mortal peril (which using chemical weapons may be one sign of, but that’s straying from the point. It is at the very least in nontrivial jeopardy), and US action reduces his force’s efficacy by a non-negligible percent, then barring madness it follows that his next decision over whether to use them or not would take into account the gains from using them in the skirmish versus the losses to the overall war effort. There are no definites, and desperation (if it is that) is a tricky thing to incorporate into game theory. But John’s answer succinctly outlined a non-partisan set of arguable and legitimate reasons. ---
**Author:** ![georgewk10](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@georgewk10](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/georgewk10)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/25 "2013-09-01T15:01:38Z")
What I want to know is; Who put this crazy plan into Obama’s head? Who set him up for such a political faux pas? Advisors , sheep in wolf clothing.? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/26 "2013-09-01T15:25:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Obama is not going to engage in any action that will prevent Assad from using chemical weapons. Well, that’s debatable. But perhaps I should have said: “To put Assad on notice that the use of CWs is an expensive move on his part, and thus make it _less likely_ he will use them again”. And just to be clear, I am against the proposed military action. I can, however, understand what Obama is getting at even if I don’t agree with him. Further, one must ask why we are violating international law in order to punish what we see is a violation of international law. > [@georgewk10](#): > > What I want to know is; Who put this crazy plan into Obama’s head? > Who set him up for such a political faux pas? > Advisors , sheep in wolf clothing.? Why, the Illuminati, of course! ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/27 "2013-09-01T15:35:33Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > My prediction is that the measure is DOA in Congress regardless of the evidence presented. Congress is so vehemently anti-Obama, they’d rather cut off their nose than to align themselves with Obama. Will make great attack ads in 2014 against Republicans when the Syria Civil War kicks into high gear. > > - Honesty 100,000 dead in two years. How many gears are left? Also I find your desire for more Syrian deaths in order to promote your political desires somewhat repugnant, but unsurprising. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/28 "2013-09-01T16:09:26Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > What _is_ the goal, exactly? > [@John\_Mace](#): > > 1. To prevent Assad from using CWs again. > > 2. To show other countries what may happen when you use CWs. (I say may, because we have tolerated their use in the past). > > 3. To send a signal to Iran about obtaining nukes against the wishes of the international community. Right. This is supposed to be enforcement of the no bad weapons rule. Feel free to massacre your people using the agreed upon weapons. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/29 "2013-09-01T16:20:40Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > 20 years from now, no one will have any memory of this at all. A few Syrians might. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/30 "2013-09-01T16:51:32Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > 100,000 dead in two years. How many gears are left? > > Also I find your desire for more Syrian deaths in order to promote your political desires somewhat repugnant, but unsurprising. Is there a hidden post from Honesty where you read this? Could you point it out to me? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/31 "2013-09-01T16:59:39Z")
Ok, I was thinking this “help protect Israel” thing mentioned in this thread was just a passing mention - but it seems that it is a [big part of the push](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/white-house-congress-syria-protect-israel-96133.html?hp=t1_3). That’s just cynically offensive. There is a reason Israel is not taking a position on the conflict in Syria. That’s because the Israeli/Syrian border was the “quiet one” (once Syria got its ass-kicking in 1973) for nearly 40 years. No one in Israel thinks that the border would continue being the “quiet one” if rebels topple Assad. Helping the rebels is the wrong way to go about “protecting Israel”, and I hope Israel quietly makes that case behind the scenes to the relevant Senators/Congressmen. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/32 "2013-09-01T17:08:37Z")
My concern with that is that attacking Israel may be Assad’s last desperate card to play, hoping to unite Islam behind him in a war with Israel. Clearly, the man has no scruples. I suspect, but cannot prove, that this is strong underlying motivation for Obama’s sense of urgency, to get some sort of settlement, even an unfavorable settlement that leaves Assad in power. He thinks the risk is too great, and I think he is right. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/33 "2013-09-01T17:27:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My concern with that is that attacking Israel may be Assad’s last desperate card to play, hoping to unite Islam behind him in a war with Israel. Clearly, the man has no scruples. Or brains, if he actually considers this. Israel will retaliate, and when they do, they do so disproportionately. Other Arab nations will be too timid to follow suit. > [@](#): > > I suspect, but cannot prove, that this is strong underlying motivation for Obama’s sense of urgency, to get some sort of settlement, even an unfavorable settlement that leaves Assad in power. He thinks the risk is too great, and I think he is right. Do you support the president’s proposal to bomb Syria? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/34 "2013-09-01T17:38:39Z")
Oh, I am confident Israel can withstand such an attack, but at enormous cost. Worse, it will strengthen the hawk position in Israel and set back any peace possible for years to come. Shorten the fuse and add more powder. Bad. And no, I do not. Registered peacenik, of long standing. Not entirely convinced he ever actually intended to do so. Threats are never a good alternative, unless all the others are worse. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/35 "2013-09-01T18:21:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As a factual matter, has it ever occurred in American history that the president asked Congress to declare war/authorize military force, and they refused? Bumping my question because I’m genuinely curious - has Congress _ever_ refused a request by the president to authorize force? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/36 "2013-09-01T18:25:14Z")
If Obama could press a button and magically destroy all of Syria’s chemical weapons, I would agree with that action. ANY other action will only make things worse. OR, Assad out. What do we do with the massacre of Alawites sure to come? Bomb again? The fact that there is an injustice doens’t mean we should or even can try to stop it if it only will cause more death and injustice. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/37 "2013-09-01T18:36:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And no, I do not. Registered peacenik, of long standing. Not entirely convinced he ever actually intended to do so. Threats are never a good alternative, unless all the others are worse. Ok, good. I didn’t think you would, but one could have read your post as saying you did. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/38 "2013-09-01T18:38:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Bumping my question because I’m genuinely curious - has Congress _ever_ refused a request by the president to authorize force? I don’t think so. Congress (or at least the House) voted against Clinton using force in Serbia, but I don’t believe he asked. It would be interesting to see Kerry’s response to why he wants to hit Syria now, but did not want to hit Saddam Hussein in 1990, and did (but regrets) agreeing to hit SH in 2002. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/39 "2013-09-01T18:41:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Bumping my question because I’m genuinely curious - has Congress _ever_ refused a request by the president to authorize force? > **[RL31133.pdf](https://sgp.fas.org/crs/natsec/RL31133.pdf)** ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/40 "2013-09-01T18:50:32Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Is there a hidden post from Honesty where you read this? Could you point it out to me? Why yes, yes there is - in the part I quoted and then made my comment that YOU quoted. He wants the war to kick into a “higher gear” and then use that as fodder for attack ads against Republicans. Unless there is some way to kick the war into higher gear without any more casualties, he’s saying he wants more blood on the streets so his side can score political points. RIF, my friend - RIF. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710.md?page=3)