# Obama passing the ball to Congress for now - predictions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 1, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710 "2013-09-01T03:42:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/381 "2013-09-10T02:08:35Z")
A Persian Sufi story in the original, something of a parable. IIRC. I’ve read it, yes, but only in translation. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/382 "2013-09-10T02:16:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > A Persian Sufi story in the original, something of a parable. IIRC. I’ve read it, yes, but only in translation. Then you can see how it applies. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/383 "2013-09-10T04:30:33Z")
Finally, a workable solution. Assad gives up his chemical weapons and signs the treaty. Ok, WMD threat gone, no need for the US to freak. The civil war isn’t most other parties’ business and can’t be fixed from the outside anyway, so you try not to blow up your neighbors and we’ll try to stay out. Obama looks like The Man for scoring a diplomatic victory. Putin and Ban Ki Moon look indispensable. The world does not become less stable. Possibly, Assad can make a friend now that he’s shedding his rogue status. Win-win-win. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/384 "2013-09-10T04:39:34Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Finally, a workable solution. > > Assad gives up his chemical weapons and signs the treaty. Ok, WMD threat gone, no need for the US to freak. If it happens, it will happen in years from now. > [@](#): > > Obama looks like The Man for scoring a diplomatic victory. Since the negotiations about the control over the chemical weapons will drag on way longer than the rest of Obama’s presidency, Obama will look like a weak fool who was outplayed. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/385 "2013-09-10T04:54:21Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If it happens, it will happen in years from now. > Since the negotiations about the control over the chemical weapons will drag on way longer than the rest of Obama’s presidency, Obama will look like a weak fool who was outplayed. It appears that outcome has been scouted already. From[here](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57602048/hillary-clinton-supports-military-strike-on-syria/): > [@](#): > > Clinton also said she could support the Russian proposal for Syria to avert a U.S. military strike by placing its chemical weapons under international control and dismantling them quickly – as long as it’s not a delaying tactic. > > “If the regime immediately surrendered its stockpiles to international control as was suggested by Secretary Kerry and the Russians, that would be an important step,” Clinton said. “But this cannot be another excuse for delay or obstruction, and Russia has to support the international community’s efforts sincerely or be held to account.” > > Like Mr. Obama, she said the current discussions “only could take place in the context of a credible military threat by the United States.” Obama will bomb before your scenario plays out. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/386 "2013-09-10T04:56:03Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Obama will bomb before your scenario plays out. How? He has to get Congress authorization. If he’s not getting it now, fresh after the chemical attacks, you think he will get it later because negotiations are dragging on too long? Clinton doesn’t get it. “Unbelievably small” attacks are not a “credible military threat by the United States”. Well no, I gotta correct myself. She does get it. But those who listen to her and believe her don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/387 "2013-09-10T05:17:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > How? He has to get Congress authorization. If he’s not getting it now, fresh after the chemical attacks, you think he will get it later because negotiations are dragging on too long? See [John Kerry: Obama Can Bomb Assad Even If Congress Votes No](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/06/john-kerry-congress-syria_n_3881200.html) > [@](#): > > Clinton doesn’t get it. “Unbelievably small” attacks are not a “credible military threat by the United States”. Well no, I gotta correct myself. She does get it. But those who listen to her and believe her don’t. Personally, I think every country’s red line is usually, “Bomb us and we are at war”. Obama’s limited strike will, in my opinion, escalate to a full-scale war since the US will find it intolerable to be at war with a WMD-possessing country like Syria that is infested with our real enemies. But that is the context. Destroying Assad’s chemical weapons would be infinitely preferable. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/388 "2013-09-10T05:22:19Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > See [John Kerry: Obama Can Bomb Assad Even If Congress Votes No](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/06/john-kerry-congress-syria_n_3881200.html) Sure. With immediate Articles of Impeachment voted on (and passing, I am pretty sure) in the House. And I bet even getting some “yes” votes from Democrat representatives. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/389 "2013-09-10T05:31:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Sure. With immediate Articles of Impeachment voted on (and passing, I am pretty sure) in the House. And I bet even getting some “yes” votes from Democrat representatives. He won’t be impeached though, not in the Senate. And this won’t happen: > [@](#): > > the negotiations about the control over the chemical weapons will drag on way longer than the rest of Obama’s presidency, Obama will look like a weak fool who was outplayed. The disarmament policy is preferable. But if that doesn’t happen, I predict war. $1 trillion. 1 million dead. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/390 "2013-09-10T06:12:43Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > He won’t be impeached though, not in the Senate. It’s the House that passes articles of impeachment. And proceedings against Clinton set kind of a low bar for that. It’s the Senate that’s responsible for trying the case and deciding on whether to remove the President from office: unlikely _now_, sure, but if the public gets riled up over what they’ve made clear is a war they don’t want, why not? It’s not like Obama has made a lot of friends on either end of the Hill, and if it comes down to their own political survival, Senators will vote in their own interest no less than House members will. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/391 "2013-09-10T06:40:29Z")
Nah, they’ll recognize that he is Commander in Chief, even if it is disingenuous to imply that limited strikes will not escalate into full-blown war. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/392 "2013-09-10T08:08:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The [General National Congress](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_National_Congress) is secular for its place-and-culture. Translation: "my description of the Libyan government, which supports Sharia courts, publicly funded Madrassas, has laws against both blasphemy and “insulting Islam”, requires all citizens to carry IDs identifying their religion as being “secular” was extremely stupid so I’m going to try and hand wave it away and instead argue that Libyan Muslims are brown-skinned savages who can’t possibly be measured we use to measure civilized white people. Yes, most people would have simply admitted they made a stupid comment and withdrawn it but I’m going to double down and on top of that, rather than using reliable sources that would inspire people’s confidence in my knowledge and understanding of the area I’m going to use a wikipedia link rather than a link to a reliable source." Beyond that, with all due respect, your description of how the Berbers “haven’t been making any trouble since the war ended” is at best grossly ignorant and at worst extremely racist. I don’t think your either so I’d recommend reading up on Libya and the history between the Berbers, the Arabs and the “Arabicized Berbers” before making such arguments in the future. I really hope for your sake you’ve never held people who talk about all the problems “Colored people” or “the Jews” have caused because your comment was at least as stupid. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/393 "2013-09-10T13:49:38Z")
I guess they are re-writing Obama’s speech for tonight. Perhaps we can pass a UNSC resolution to set up a WMD Inspection protocol. I recommend we call that resolution 1441-B to make sure past events don’t play out again. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/394 "2013-09-10T14:08:45Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Translation: "my description of the Libyan government, which supports Sharia courts, publicly funded Madrassas, has laws against both blasphemy and “insulting Islam”, requires all citizens to carry IDs identifying their religion as being “secular” was extremely stupid so I’m going to try and hand wave it away and instead argue that Libyan Muslims are brown-skinned savages who can’t possibly be measured we use to measure civilized white people. > > Yes, most people would have simply admitted they made a stupid comment and withdrawn it but I’m going to double down and on top of that, rather than using reliable sources that would inspire people’s confidence in my knowledge and understanding of the area I’m going to use a wikipedia link rather than a link to a reliable source." > > Beyond that, with all due respect, your description of how the Berbers “haven’t been making any trouble since the war ended” is at best grossly ignorant and at worst extremely racist. > > I don’t think your either so I’d recommend reading up on Libya and the history between the Berbers, the Arabs and the “Arabicized Berbers” before making such arguments in the future. > > I really hope for your sake you’ve never held people who talk about all the problems “Colored people” or “the Jews” have caused because your comment was at least as stupid. Not even an Iranian cat with 99 lives could muster experience and knowledge you purport on this message board. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/395 "2013-09-10T14:12:15Z")
I’m glad that Assad and the rebels will be willing to suspend their civil war while UN inspectors and the international community take a few years to secure all WMDs in Syria. And I’m certain that Assad will not condition his compliance with a WMD ban on Israel doing same. However, as long as we’re not bombing Syria (and assuming this is going to provide a political out for Obama) I can live with us looking like bumbling fools on the international stage. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/396 "2013-09-10T14:39:39Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Not even an Iranian cat with 99 lives could muster experience and knowledge you purport on this message board. Being born in Iran has nothing to do with Libya, a country that’s not even on the same continent. I also didn’t claim to have any expertise on the subject of Libya. I merely ripped apart BG’s claim that the Libyan government is “secular”(a claim they would take as an insult) and criticized the claim that the Berbers(a historically discriminated against minority) haven’t been causing trouble which a) implies I suggested they had and b) suggests they once had been doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/397 "2013-09-10T15:45:14Z")
Anyway it’s pretty obvious we’ve commenced Operation Save Face. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/398 "2013-09-10T17:07:45Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Anyway it’s pretty obvious we’ve commenced Operation Save Face. We had to destroy the face in order to save it. I guess this inspection regime, if it actually works out, is better than bombing. Given the demonstrated reluctance of the international community, the American public, the Russkis, the Brits, and my Aunt Grace, to enforce this supposed “red line”, I wonder how badly Assad is shaking in his sneakers at what may hap should he violate the inspection regime. Maybe the UN will slap him really hard after a dozen years or so. Or maybe not. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/399 "2013-09-10T17:23:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I wonder how badly Assad is shaking in his sneakers at what may hap should he violate the inspection regime. Maybe the UN will slap him really hard after a dozen years or so. Or maybe not. Tamerlane announced that he was looking for someone would teach his donkey to talk. Nobody wanted the job until one day Hodja Nasreddin came and promised to do it, saying that it would take 10 years. During that time Tamerlane would pay him a salary and provide him a house. Hodja’s friends were very worried. “You’re crazy!” they said, “Tamerlane will execute you when he sees that you failed.” “Don’t worry,” Hodja told them, “the money is good, the job is not hard, and a lot can happen in 10 years. Tamerlane might die, or I might die, or this old donkey might die. Or who knows, maybe the donkey will learn to talk.” ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710/400 "2013-09-10T18:25:30Z")
[Russia balks at French plan for UN Security Council resolution on Syrian **…**](http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=ce270d38103a630c3181db372a25a052&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fboards.straightdope.com%2Fsdmb%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D701046&v=1&libId=36b87558-4b94-43f6-8639-52a876968306&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fworld%2Fmiddle_east%2Ffrance-to-author-security-council-resolution-to-require-syria-to-give-up-chemical-weapons%2F2013%2F09%2F10%2F0d51a06c-19ff-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fboards.straightdope.com%2Fsdmb%2Fshowthread.php%3Fp%3D16652304&title=Straight%20Dope%20Message%20Board%20-%20Reply%20to%20Topic&txt=%3CFONT%20color%3D%231155cc%3ERussia%20balks%20at%20French%20plan%20for%20UN%20Security%20Council%20resolution%20on%20Syrian%20%3CB%3E...%3C%2FB%3E%3C%2FFONT%3E&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13788375120456) Forget the “take control of the WMD” plan. Seems actually putting teeth (or as much as the UN ever shows) into it scared the Russians/Assad. [“I understand that the Russians, at this stage, are not necessarily enthusiastic, and I’m using a euphemism, to frame all this in a binding U.N. resolution,” Fabius told French lawmakers.] Fabius is the French foreign minister. I going to go with “Delaying Tactics for $1000, Alex”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-passing-the-ball-to-congress-for-now-predictions/667710.md?page=21)