# Obama proposes extension of FBI Director's term **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 12, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713 "2011-05-12T22:09:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/1 "2011-05-12T22:09:05Z")
Congress passed a term limit of 10 years on the FBI director following J. Edgar Hoover’s death. I should think that reason for that is clear to all. Obama has proposed that Congress pass a law that would apply solely to the current director, a law that would allow him to remain in his position for 12 years. This is a bad thing. I’ve nothing against Mueller. To the best of my knowledge, he has been a competent director of the FBI. He is not the only person in the country with the ability to be a competent director of the FBI. To use active counter-terrorism investigations as a justification for this is simplistic. In two years, the United States will still be facing terrorism. In ten years, the United States will still be facing terrorism. It is wrong for Obama to propose this law, and should Congress pass it, it will still be wrong. It is a slippery slope, and Obama and Congress should both be taking a long-term view of the consequences, and not a short-term view of convenience. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/2 "2011-05-12T22:22:27Z")
I agree - I don’t like that kind of power vesting in one person for that long. Once making exceptions becomes the norm, the term limit might as well not exist. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/3 "2011-05-12T22:38:32Z")
If Mueller has a lot of valuable insight and experience and knowledge of counter-terrorism, can’t he stay on at the FBI in that capacity? ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/4 "2011-05-12T22:46:45Z")
I’m normally a big fan of term limits, but this seems like a job that doesn’t need one. I hereby resolve to not really care if Mueller leaves or stays. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/5 "2011-05-12T22:47:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > If Mueller has a lot of valuable insight and experience and knowledge of counter-terrorism, can’t he stay on at the FBI in that capacity? As a consultant? Perhaps. I doubt it’d work out too well. In my experience, bosses who hang around after they’re retired cause doubt as to who is the real boss and increase the detrimental affects of office politics. Maybe if they gave him an office at the White House or something, and sent him a flunky carrying paperwork once a week. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/6 "2011-05-12T22:56:08Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > I’m normally a big fan of term limits, but this seems like a job that doesn’t need one. Really? Why not? Are you familiar with J. Edgar Hoover’s 48 year tenure? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/7 "2011-05-12T22:57:00Z")
Ten years? How about 8. Why should the next president be saddled with the present president’s choices? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/8 "2011-05-12T23:00:26Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Congress passed a term limit of 10 years on the FBI director following J. Edgar Hoover’s death. I should think that reason for that is clear to all. It’s not clear to me. How much of the motivation was Hoover-specific? Is there no way, other than term limits, to prevent another Hoover-esque director? Not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t know the reason for the current rule and whether or not it was an overreaction on Congress’ part when it was passed. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/9 "2011-05-12T23:02:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > If Mueller has a lot of valuable insight and experience and knowledge of counter-terrorism, can’t he stay on at the FBI in that capacity? I imagine its probably problematic to have a new guy take-over the department if the old guy is still kicking around. I don’t really have a problem with him staying on if Obama can get an OK from Congress though. We already have term limited Presidents and Attorney General and the Deputy Attorney General usually don’t outlast their Presidents (or at least need to be reconfirmed if they do). We already have three layers of the hierarchy then, that are regularly turned over to keep anyone from getting too entrenched, plus Congress will still need to re-confirm the office holder every ten years. That seems enough protection against someone getter too entrenched. At some point, too many overlapping protections and layers of oversight are more hinderance then they’re worth, IMHO. Plus, while overly powerful, longstanding bureaucrats can certainly be a problem, I think the US suffers the opposite dilemma. It seems the top level jobs don’t even usually last the full four years of whomever the current Prez is before the bosses job-jump to a new position or leaves the Administration. I’m not sure how the various departments can be expected to form effective bureaucracy when a new guy helicopters in every 2-4 years with no doubt a new set of prioritities and pet-projects. Some of this churn is no doubt an unavoidable consequence of having new elections every four years. But I think some of that can be mitigated by allowing the below-cabinet parts of the heirarchy to serve as long as they and the President want them to, adding at least some stability to the Executive Branch. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/10 "2011-05-12T23:22:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s not clear to me. How much of the motivation was Hoover-specific? Is there no way, other than term limits, to prevent another Hoover-esque director? The longer you leave a director in place, the more likely it is that he will become like Hoover. Hoover was, by all accounts, an energetic and competent Director of the BOI/FBI in it’s early years combatting rum-runners, bank robbers and kidnappers. Then we got into stuff like [COINTELPRO](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO): > [@](#): > > FBI records show that 85% of COINTELPRO resources targeted groups and individuals that the FBI deemed “subversive,”[5] including communist and socialist organizations; organizations and individuals associated with the civil rights movement, including Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and others associated with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, and the Congress of Racial Equality and other civil rights organizations; black nationalist groups; the American Indian Movement; a broad range of organizations labeled “New Left”, including Students for a Democratic Society and the Weathermen; almost all groups protesting the Vietnam War, as well as individual student demonstrators with no group affiliation; the National Lawyers Guild; organizations and individuals associated with the women’s rights movement; nationalist groups such as those seeking independence for Puerto Rico and a United Ireland; and additional notable Americans, such as Albert Einstein. The remaining 15% of COINTELPRO resources were expended to marginalize and subvert “white hate groups,” including the Ku Klux Klan and the National States’ Rights Party.[6] Meanwhile, he ignored the Mafia, blackmailed politicians, and ran the FBI as his personal fiefdom instead of a professional crime-fighting agency. Unless you think that the passage of the term limit was a reaction to the possibility of Clarence M. Kelly serving for 48 years, it can only be attributed to Hoover. It was not an overreaction. It was a valid solution to a real problem. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/11 "2011-05-12T23:24:41Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Congress passed a term limit of 10 years on the FBI director following J. Edgar Hoover’s death. I should think that reason for that is clear to all. I’m not hugely convinced term limits are the appropriate solution for this sort of thing though. Doesn’t the president have the power to fire the FBI director? If so, that implies the presidents along the way were okay with what Hoover was doing. I’m not sure that term limits solve that problem - since presidents could just appoint a different nasty, oppressive person every 10 years! Term limits are a very blunt tool: they enforce getting rid of the bad but they also enforce getting rid of the good as well. I was surprised to learn there are term limits for this appointed position. I’d advocate getting rid of them entirely. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/12 "2011-05-12T23:26:31Z")
Seems to me FBI Director shouldn’t be a civil-service job anyway, it should be a political appointment that changes with every Admin. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/13 "2011-05-13T00:03:45Z")
A Director of the FBI job _should_ be a civil service job - one that’s overseen by the President. It makes sense for Obama to ask this, because the FBI director reports to the Director of Intelligence, and the FBI has had a shakeup in operations since 9/11. The FBI, CIA, and military all coordinate now. edit: You want some parts of intelligence and police to be independent (aka the president can appoint an intelligence director that’s confirmed by the Senate but the president can’t determine who’s the commander/Sargent/etc of such and such). the CIA does have certain obligations to the president. the fbi does not share the same responsibilities. you don’t want the FBI to be a purely political office. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/14 "2011-05-13T00:16:51Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Obama has proposed that Congress pass a law that would apply solely to the current director, Disagree right there. I don’t want _any_ laws that apply to specific people. Terrible, terrible symbolism. If Obama wants to propose a law to redefine the terms of the post for _all_ its potential occupants, I’ll listen to the argument. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Seems to me FBI Director shouldn’t be a civil-service job anyway, it should be a political appointment that changes with every Admin. Why? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/15 "2011-05-13T00:18:02Z")
If it takes an act of congress to temporarily increase the term I don’t see a strong argument against it. If the person is in anyway objectionable a single senator can block the extension long enough to oust him anyway. If Obama was asking to permanently remove the term limit I might look at it differently. If a term extension passes it will probably be through unanimous consent, in which case they if they really wanted they could just push to remove the term limit all together. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/16 "2011-05-13T00:34:12Z")
can we get some links up in thiz biz? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/17 "2011-05-13T00:35:14Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > … the CIA does have certain obligations to the president. the fbi does not share the same responsibilities. you don’t want the FBI to be a purely political office. The President already appoints the FBI Director. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/18 "2011-05-13T00:37:22Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > can we get some links up in thiz biz? What would you like a link to? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/19 "2011-05-13T00:42:22Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The President already appoints the FBI Director. Yes, but each appointment carries over from one administration to the next. It’s not like the jobs where you _expect_ everyone to be swept out and replaced with each new Prez. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713/20 "2011-05-13T00:43:12Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Ten years? How about 8. Why should the next president be saddled with the present president’s choices? The director of the FBI serves at the pleasure of the President, so a future President isn’t saddled with the previous President’s choice. Bill Clinton dismissed Director William Sessions during Clinton’s Presidency. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-proposes-extension-of-fbi-directors-term/581713.md?page=2)