# Obama ridicules McCain's disability **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493 "2008-09-13T22:30:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/101 "2008-09-14T02:11:57Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Why – because you don’t think it’s trivial. Internet access may seem trivial if you’ve never had it or used it, but once you do it is no longer so. This doesn’t prove anything. Why does the president need to be able to use the internet? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/102 "2008-09-14T02:15:41Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > True, but not knowing how many houses he has is not related to the job of the president. As you and **Stratocaster** have argued, a president could have aides dictate, read, or pull anything up on the internet or computers that he or she so desired. I don’t think anyone could make a credible argument (without at least having some firsthand White House experience) on whether computer skills were absolutely necessary for a president to have. I brought that up in response to the idea that him not being able to e-mail makes him seem out of touch. > [@](#): > > But the question _why_ is McCain still computer illiterate is one that may reveal something about his character. Computer literacy may not be needed for a president, but given all the committee hearings, coordination, vote negotiations, and just day-to-day business that a senator must do, why hasn’t he asked an aide just to show him a few basic things? The Obama camp is essentially arguing that the fact that he seems to have remained in the dark about computers from at least 2000 until now indicates that McCain is stubborn, willfully ignorant in this area and refuses to adapt to changing times. And that these qualities may be true about more than just computers. True, but he’s stated that his family is helping him learn. That part is already covered. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/103 "2008-09-14T02:15:59Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > This doesn’t prove anything. Why does the president need to be able to use the internet? Of course it doesn’t prove anything about the president. But Stratocaster said internet access is trivial. Well it turns out that it isn’t trivial for Stratocaster, so what is the justification for the claim that it is for someone else? I didn’t argue this with you, because you didn’t make this claim. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/104 "2008-09-14T02:18:53Z")
Obama’s campaign say McCain can’t use a computer. This turns out to be true. McCain’s side says it is because he was tortured. This is proven to be false. McCain’s side then switches the subject and says that why does it matter anyway. No, sorry, do not change the subject. You were lying and that is the point of this thread, not whether it matters or not that McCain knows how to use email. And, in any case, whether it matters or not is for the American people to decide. The Republicans used to like to show Bush clearing Brush. Bush: he can clear brush like a MF. Is it important for a president to know how to clear brush? Maybe, maybe not. That’s what elections decide. Me, I’d rather have a president who is familiar with computers than one who is good at clearing brush. Because you can get a Mexican to clear the brush for a much better rate. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/105 "2008-09-14T02:22:11Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Obama’s campaign say McCain can’t use a computer. This turns out to be true. Correct. > [@](#): > > McCain’s side says it is because he was tortured. This is proven to be false. Not correct. A cite has been provided. > [@](#): > > McCain’s side then switches the subject and says that why does it matter anyway. I’m not on McCain’s side nor is it a change of subject. The point was made that it was important that the president needs to be able to use the internet. That is debatable. > [@](#): > > No, sorry, do not change the subject. You were lying and that is the point of this thread, not whether it matters or not that McCain knows how to use email. It’s not a subject change. It’s been brought up in this thread. > [@](#): > > And, in any case, whether it matters or not is for the American people to decide. The Republicans used to like to show Bush clearing Brush. Bush: he can clear brush like a MF. Is it important for a president to know how to clear brush? Maybe, maybe not. That’s what elections decide. > > Me, I’d rather have a president who is familiar with computers than one who is good at clearing brush. Because you can get a Mexican to clear the brush for a much better rate. Does this mean that you can’t answer the question either? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/106 "2008-09-14T02:22:32Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Why – because you don’t think it’s trivial. Internet access may seem trivial if you’ve never had it or used it, but once you do it is no longer so. I meant trivial relative to the execution of his duties as president. Not whether his life would be richer if he took the time to learn (which, by the way, he is apparently doing). We can disagree, but I still don’t see a single material “bad thing” that might occur if McCain is a computer dunce. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/107 "2008-09-14T02:28:58Z")
Oh my effing deity … > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Jack Batty: > > I swear, I am baffled by this whole argument. > > > > We don’t care that the potential President of the United States doesn’t know how to email. It harkens back to the days of, “I like Bush, because he seems like a guy I could have a beer with.” > > No it doesn’t. Yes it does. You don’t get to tell me what harkens me back? It harkens me. I’m harkened. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Quote by Jack Batty: > > When, in this country, did it become to cool to want a dumb president? > > He’s dumb because he can’t check his e-mail? Yes. It isn’t difficult. It’s a skill on a par with being able to program your DVR. If he can’t figure it out … that’s a detriment. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Quote by Jack Batty: > > McCain not knowing how to open Outlook – making him a regular Joe-- is an asset , but Obama graduating from Harvard Law School – making him an elitist – is a detriment? > > > > I fear Idocracy is coming true. > > Seriously. Tell me why the president needs to be able to use the internet. You have yet to establish that and your emotional arguments are not cutting it. I have told you at least three times. You don’t seem to care that if he needs some information, he needs to call up Poindexter down in IT to tell him which button to press. Fine. Be comfortable with a potential chief executive who doesn’t have the tech-skills of your average 10 year old. But don’t expect me – an actual sane registered voter – to laud it as something good. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/108 "2008-09-14T02:33:38Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Yes. It isn’t difficult. It’s a skill on a par with being able to program your DVR. If he can’t figure it out … that’s a detriment. Another important skill to being a president. > [@](#): > > I have told you at least three times. You don’t seem to care that if he needs some information, he needs to call up Poindexter down in IT to tell him which button to press. Or they could tell it to him like they did in the dark days before the internet. Or they could hand him a piece of paper with words on it. I know. More dark age obsolesence. > [@](#): > > Fine. Be comfortable with a potential chief executive who doesn’t have the tech-skills of your average 10 year old. But don’t expect me – an actual sane registered voter – to laud it as something good. All you have to do is explain to me why the president, _why any president_ be they democrat or republican, needs to be able to use the internet. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/109 "2008-09-14T02:37:15Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Precisely, really quite retarded line of attack for the O boy. Calling a black man “boy” seems to be standard fare for Republicans these days. It’s still racist. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/110 "2008-09-14T02:39:32Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Not correct. A cite has been provided. I’m sorry, I’m really not trying to bait anyone or be repetitious, but I would very much appreciate a direct statement to that effect, and, if possible, a re-linking. A simple “RTFT, see post X” would do for the cite, but I’d really like a good, clear, unequivocal statement that: “the reason McCain has never learned to use a computer for basic office tasks and Internet use is solely due to physical incapacity.” Whether or not a president needs to use a computer in during his time in office is a secondary discussion, which is quite debatable. O or M can certainly rely on their staff to do all necessary research, and will have secretaries and aides to send missives and whatnot. Whether or not being familiar with the Internet is necessary to make informed judgements about policy (e.g., net neutrality, justice department priorities) is another layer of the question. Whether or not one can be “in touch with the common man” or whatever that means is a necessary quality in a president is also a second topic, as is whether or not ignorance of Google, Wiki, etc., and the abilities of computers relates to that. There seems to be all sorts of misfirings between the different arguments – someone raises a point about one, then someone answers with a retort about another. Except for the physical bit, none of the above are open-and-shut debates. There may be strong passions and feelings about them – especially as the Internet plays such an obvious role in this community – but there are rational positions on both sides. But if you are taking one of the minority views (minority in that the board leans left), would you kindly make a small parenthetical in your reply to give everyone a heads up on where you stand regarding his physical ability to use a computer? For those of you (and I’m assuming there are some) who don’t buy into the handicap thing but still don’t think familiarity weighs on his candidacy, noting that at the outset will make your post much clearer. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/111 "2008-09-14T02:42:32Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > True, but not knowing how many houses he has is not related to the job of the president. As you and **Stratocaster** have argued, a president could have aides dictate, read, or pull anything up on the internet or computers that he or she so desired. I don’t think anyone could make a credible argument (without at least having some firsthand White House experience) that computer skills were absolutely necessary for a president to have. > > But the question _why_ is McCain still computer illiterate is one that may reveal something about his character. Computer literacy may not be needed for a president, but given all the committee hearings, coordination, vote negotiations, and just day-to-day business that a senator must do, why hasn’t he asked an aide just to show him a few basic things? The Obama camp is essentially arguing that the fact that he seems to have remained in the dark about computers from at least 2000 until now indicates that McCain is stubborn, willfully ignorant in this area and refuses to adapt to changing times. And that these qualities may be true about more than just computers. Right, at this point I would say at least 80% of the U.S. population uses computers at least occasionally to check email and a few web sites. Heck, even my most technically-challenged elderly relatives have email. So the ad is just another way to demonstrate how out-of-touch McCain is. Ed ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/112 "2008-09-14T02:42:47Z")
> [@](#): > > From Harborwolf > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Jack Batty: > > Yes. It isn’t difficult. It’s a skill on a par with being able to program your DVR. If he can’t figure it out … that’s a detriment. > > Another important skill to being a president. Another disingenuous retort. It’s a comparison. I don’t care if McCain knows how to record every episode of _Murder She Wrote_ on LifeTime. It was a comparison. Checking your email shouldn’t be a skill over the head of the President. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Quote by Jack Batty: > > I have told you at least three times. You don’t seem to care that if he needs some information, he needs to call up Poindexter down in IT to tell him which button to press. > > Or they could tell it to him like they did in the dark days before the internet. Or they could hand him a piece of paper with words on it. I know. More dark age obsolesence. Or they could step into the relatively important world of today, where shit like this is important. What, do you want him to re-instate the Pony Express because it isn’t as complicated as the internets too? > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Quote by Jack Batty: > > Fine. Be comfortable with a potential chief executive who doesn’t have the tech-skills of your average 10 year old. But don’t expect me – an actual sane registered voter – to laud it as something good. > > All you have to do is explain to me why the president, why any president be they democrat or republican, needs to be able to use the internet. It is increasingly difficult to explain this to you if every time I offer a reason, your retort is “give me a reason?” What do you need? Smoke signals? Semi-fore? Morese code? Throw me a bone here and I’ll tell you again. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/113 "2008-09-14T02:44:56Z")
Don’t know if this has been mentioned yet, but knowing and operating a computer is not only a generational thing, it’s a paradigm thing. It’s been interwoven into the fabric of growing up now-a-days. More and more people everyday incorporate technology into their lives. I think more people identify with candidates who are progressive and fit this mold of ‘new’ in their psyche. Just saying, apologies if it was already said. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/114 "2008-09-14T02:46:28Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I’m sorry, I’m really not trying to bait anyone or be repetitious, but I would very much appreciate a direct statement to that effect, and, if possible, a re-linking. A simple “RTFT, see post X” would do for the cite, but I’d really like a good, clear, unequivocal statement that: “the reason McCain has never learned to use a computer for basic office tasks and Internet use is solely due to physical incapacity.” My post [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10193515&postcount=54). Boston Globe story. March 2000. As I said there. He has undercut this point himself by saying that he is learning how to use the internet but is technically illiterate, but the disability remark does have history. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/115 "2008-09-14T02:48:40Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > [McCain has long relied on his grit](http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/14/nation/na-mccainsquadron14) > > > [@](#): > > > > When John McCain limped home from a Hanoi prison camp in 1973 with a badly injured knee that he could not bend, Navy doctors gave him the bad news: His 15-year career as a jet pilot was over. He would never fly again. > > > > But McCain surprised his doctors by making a dramatic comeback. With a ferocious determination to fly again and a tough physical therapy regimen, he got his wings back and not long after was awarded command of the Navy’s largest aviation squadron, VA-174, at Cecil Field in Florida. > > They let a man fly a plane who lacked the motors skill to type? Who said anything about a plane?? McCain can fly? He has wings? Cool! What super powers does Obama have? (Gotta keep that in mind if one of them’s going to be in the [X-Presidents](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_X-Presidents) some day.) ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/116 "2008-09-14T02:49:41Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Calling a black man “boy” seems to be standard fare for Republicans these days. It’s still racist. But it’s apparently OK if [Jimmy Carter](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo09Rx9whWs) does it? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/117 "2008-09-14T02:50:03Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > All you have to do is explain to me why the president, _why any president_ be they democrat or republican, needs to be able to use the internet. Again, that is really trying to switch the subject which is that the republicans lied. You say they didn’t and I say they did. That is the topic. But, again, just so you can’t say I’m not answering the question you are using to sidetrack the thread, the question whether the president needs to be able to use the internet is neither here nor there in this debate. It is a question which needs to be answered when every American votes. The Democrats are just providing the information so that each American can use it as they see fit. That is not the topic of this thread. And I have gone one step further: why does a president, any president, need to know how to read and write? Many kings in the past were illiterate and reigned well. They just had documents read to them and dictated what they needed in writing. Do you believe it would be OK to point out if Obama was illiterate? Or would you say it is of no concern? Having answered those questions let’s get back to the topic: McCain’s side lied. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/118 "2008-09-14T02:51:56Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > My post [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10193515&postcount=54). Boston Globe story. March 2000. As I said there. He has undercut this point himself by saying that he is learning how to use the internet but is technically illiterate, but the disability remark does have history. I don’t buy it. Stephen Hawking can use a computer and McCain’s injuries prevent him from using one? Sorry, I don’t buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/119 "2008-09-14T02:52:37Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Another disingenuous retort. It’s a comparison. I don’t care if McCain knows how to record every episode of _Murder She Wrote_ on LifeTime. It was a comparison. Checking your email shouldn’t be a skill over the head of the President. Why does he need to be able to check his e-mail? What is going to be there that he cannot get from another source? > [@](#): > > Or they could step into the relatively important world of today, where shit like this is important. What, do you want him to re-instate the Pony Express because it isn’t as complicated as the internets too? Unlike the pony express, spoken and written communication have not yet been rendered obsolete. > [@](#): > > It is increasingly difficult to explain this to you if every time I offer a reason, your retort is “give me a reason?” > > What do you need? Smoke signals? Semi-fore? Morese code? Throw me a bone here and I’ll tell you again. Your reason doesn’t hold. I have provided entirely reasonable alternatives to e-mail and the internet. You have yet to provide one single solid reason why the president needs to be able to use the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/120 "2008-09-14T02:53:59Z")
> [@Merkwurdigliebe](#): > > I give this one a 5. Seems like it might have some credibility but likely not true. Where was it stated that he lacks fine motor skills? Can he write? It’s true he can’t comb his hair but that’s because he can’t lift his arms up. > > noun, verb, POW. > I’m glad Obama is ripping McCain for that kind of stuff. We can’t afford someone so out of touch with something that is such a big part of our economy. If he was a GOOD American (IE - A Republican) he would have created a business empire that was based around wall-mounted combs on arms so that people with similar disabilities could comb their own hair. Entrepreneurship. That’s what a REAL American would do. Oh, wait, instead he married a rich bitch. -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493.md?page=7)