# Obama ridicules McCain's disability **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493 "2008-09-13T22:30:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/121 "2008-09-14T02:56:01Z")
I think that this ad will not be effective for the basic reason that many Republicans seems to embrace ignorance in a presidential candidate as a virtue. > [@](#): > > “John McCain doesn’t know how to use a computer? Great!” ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/122 "2008-09-14T02:59:36Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Again, that is really trying to switch the subject which is that the republicans lied. You say they didn’t and I say they did. That is the topic. > > But, again, just so you can’t say I’m not answering the question you are using to sidetrack the thread, the question whether the president needs to be able to use the internet is neither here nor there in this debate. It is a question which needs to be answered when every American votes. The Democrats are just providing the information so that each American can use it as they see fit. That is not the topic of this thread. If it’s not worth answering why the president needs to be able to use the internet, it’s not worth bringing up that he can’t. The importance of the action is central to argument. I’m relatively certain that John McCain can’t handle a camera phone, a dvr, or a playstation 1,2, or 3. All of these are common enough activities but ones that are nonessential to becoming the president. So far as I know, he hasn’t been attacked on any of these. What makes the internet so important that it is worth the ad. > [@](#): > > And I have gone one step further: why does a president, any president, need to know how to read and write? Many kings in the past were illiterate and reigned well. They just had documents read to them and dictated what they needed in writing. Do you believe it would be OK to point out if Obama was illiterate? Or would you say it is of no concern? That’s a ridiculous argument. Prove that being able to use the internet is as important as reading and you’ll have something. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/123 "2008-09-14T03:01:50Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Apparently, he cannot raise his arms above his shoulders due to his injuries while a POW. That would limit his ability to comb his hair. What hair? All he needs is a stiff breeze. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/124 "2008-09-14T03:02:47Z")
**Harborwolf** … it’s late here on the east coast and I’m about to turn in. I don’t really have any more arguments for you. You seem to be fine with a potential chief executive who doesn’t know _how_ to do something as simple as checking one’s email. Not that he _must_, but that he couldn’t even if tried. If you can’t see why the President – the Chief Executive – of the United States of America needs to have the basic skills required to be able to fire up a PC and get something done … then you have my pity. Feel free to ask me for more reasons why the President needs to be able to do something that both my children could have done before they hit middle school, but I’ll have to work on my nested quotes tomorrow to try to explain it to you again. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/125 "2008-09-14T03:04:59Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > So far as I know, he hasn’t been attacked on any of these. What makes the internet so important that it is worth the ad. You’re right, of course. Our current president doesn’t read the newspapers. Not reading the internet is just the next step. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/126 "2008-09-14T03:05:59Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I’m relatively certain if McCain wants to, he can still read a newspaper or watch television all by himself. The only thing I can think of that he’d miss by not being online would be the wonderfully reliable and rational world of blogs. But if he tries to buy a paper with a dubloon, will they accept it? Will they give him correct change? Seriously, though, the man has all the intellectual curiosity of Dubya. Do you really think that it’s a positive thing to have a president controlled by the people who decide what information he receives? Or is McCain going to go to a newspaper stand and pick up his own paper? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/127 "2008-09-14T03:11:59Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > That’s a ridiculous argument. Prove that being able to use the internet is as important as reading and you’ll have something. Why is it ridiculous? Using your same logic I can say that the president can have things read to him and dictate what he needs written. Why is that ridiculous. You know why? because an illiterate president would be seen by the people as someone totally different from themselves. It is not a practical matter that the president needs to read and write, it is a matter that we expect our leaders to have a certain level of education about the world today and that for many people means reading, writing and… knowing how to use a computer. I am convinced McCain just does not know how to use a computer, not that he is unable due to physical incapacity. He could still know even if he was unable. But he does not know because he has not had the interest and I believe this would make many people believe it was a point against him. I certainly do. Just like I believe a leader should be literate even if strictly speaking it is not necessary for the actual performing of the job. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/128 "2008-09-14T03:17:42Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > My post [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10193515&postcount=54). Boston Globe story. March 2000. As I said there. He has undercut this point himself by saying that he is learning how to use the internet but is technically illiterate, but the disability remark does have history. Thanks – I did read that initially, and I’m sorry I didn’t make the connection. I think there are two reasons: first, it’s an article from 2000, ages ago as far as Internet and computer penetration is concerned. They were already mainstream by then, but still much different than today, so I didn’t make the necessary connection to today’s question and whether or not physical trauma kept him from using a computer. Second, all it mentions, in an almost offhand way (not that that weighs on the question, it wasn’t exactly germane to the article as a whole), is that he can’t use a keyboard. Ok, but lots of people are able to hunt-and-peck their way around a typewriter/keyboard with one finger at a time. It’s probably exceedingly rare in younger generations (given the centrality of computers in their lives), but many people have gotten by for years typing with two fingers. To be extreme, I had a boss with one hand who made great use of a stylus. No one, I think, is debating whether or not McCain suffers from some permanent injury. I don’t think anyone here would blink if it turned out he had a handicap parking sticker. But I think there is general incredulity to the notion that McCain’s lack of computer skills is largely due to those physical ailments. Which brings me back to my original question. I hate to be a pain, but I still can’t tell where you are in this. I don’t want to force you into one side or the other if that is impossible, but given equivocal statements like “But it’s also worth noting that he himself has said that he is merely computer illiterate,” it’s hard to tell where you’re coming from. Is it: A) McCain never learned to use a computer because he was physically incapable of doing so (not only that, but his use/nonuse is irrelevant to his capacity for the job). B) McCain never learned to use a computer because it was physically taxing to do so, so he had his wife/aides take care of such needs for him (not only that, but his use/nonuse is irrelevant to his capacity for the job). C) McCain never learned to use a computer because it was unimportant to him (or some other reason). However, it never affected his ability to do his job and isn’t relevant to the responsibilities and duties of the president. I’m sorry to be tenacious about this — I’m really not trying to trap you or anyone in a particular place or set up a Gotcha Ya. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/129 "2008-09-14T03:20:08Z")
I really appreciate some of the returning posters coming into this thread and pretending my posting upthread says something not even remotely what it does. Once more, and I’ll gladly carry this discussion further in The BBQ Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/130 "2008-09-14T03:29:14Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I really appreciate some of the returning posters coming into this thread and pretending my posting upthread says something not even remotely what it does. Once more, and I’ll gladly carry this discussion further in The BBQ Pit. Which posts of yours are being misinterpreted in which posts? Not playing dumb, just that there are a lot of posts here and I’m not sure of the source of the umbrage. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/131 "2008-09-14T03:33:02Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I really appreciate some of the returning posters coming into this thread and pretending my posting upthread says something not even remotely what it does. Once more, and I’ll gladly carry this discussion further in The BBQ Pit. [There’s already a thread in the pit.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=483236) ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/132 "2008-09-14T03:55:13Z")
First, let’s take non-governmental functions off the table. Time spent on personal e-mail, Facebook, [classmates.com](http://classmates.com), [foreignleadersgonewild.com](http://foreignleadersgonewild.com), or other sites that have no bearing on good governance. What about governance/leadership? New sites? Research? I daresay that even at the dreaded hour of three AM, any president is going to have access to information and analysis that surpasses whatever he/she could find on the Internet. Even if its actual source _is_ the Internet, it will likely have been gathered by an aide with more specialization/background in a particular subject area. Email? What’s so great about email? Instant communication? Sure, but if the president dictates/types a letter, hands it to an aide and says “get this to X”, it’s not going to get there via email? Is the president really going to be checking the [president@whitehouse.gov](mailto:president@whitehouse.gov) email account? Isn’t it more likely that, like the telephone and mail system, an aide (or group of aides) won’t be reading/filtering these things anyway? Appointment scheduling? Project management? What is done on a computer that can’t be done better if you have an expert on the subject providing the output and results? This isn’t open-and-shut. Project management or scenario-building, tweaking this and that here and there to see outcomes may not lend itself to a third party. Also, some things – again, project management for example – can’t be done nearly the same without some familiarity with computers. But all told, what is it you expect a sitting president to do with his desktop? On the other side of the coin, doesn’t the Executive Branch have significant policy influence over computers? Whether to put more or less pressure on Microsoft or Google, maintain Net Neutrality, prosecute spammers, cross-border tax implications, etc. are all areas that have an enormous impact on day-to-day life. If these issues are all gobbledygook to an incoming president, how are they to make a good judgment on setting priorities? If they’ve never made the change from, say, dialup to broadband, or had to wade through a box full of spam, can they relate to these issues? How can they even reliably assign someone to make policy choices? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/133 "2008-09-14T05:47:04Z")
My friend Michael has had MS for the last 25 years or so. He could still move a couple of fingers a little bit the last time I saw him. But he sends email all the time. If McCain hasn’t learned how to use a computer, he hasn’t been motivated enough. He need to learn how to send email so that he can show his mother how to do it so that he can send her jokes and sweet messages like a good son. My friend Beverly will be 90 next month and sends fascinating emails. McCain doesn’t have her strength of character anymore, but he can work on it. There’s hope. I want a President who won’t find excuses for not getting the job done. You don’t have to move your arms to use a computer and I’m sure that many people have told him that. Am I sorry that he has such a disability under such god-awful circumstances? Of course I am. The torturing of any human being disturbs me. That is one of the reasons I am a Pacifist. But that is not the reason he doesn’t use the computer. By the way, some of us would still like a POTUS who is more intelligent than we are. I don’t think elderly people are going to get their feelings hurt because Obama can use a computer and they can’t. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/134 "2008-09-14T05:59:44Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Being computer illiterate in the sense of knowing the specifics of using an operating system and running various applications does not mean he’s technologically illiterate. In fact, McCain’s campaign in 2000 was the most high-tech campaign around, and pioneered the use of the web in a presidential campaign. I think this says a lot more about the technical skills of the people working for him than about McCain’s own level of technical know-how. This thread is totally disingenuous. Obama never ridiculed McCain’s disability, and in fact McCain doesn’t have any disability that prevents him from knowing how to use a computer. As someone said above, even Stephen Hawking can use a computer, and he’s a hell of a lot more disabled than McCain. You can certainly question whether McCain’s level of computer savvy is _relevant_ to the race for President. But to act like Obama was making fun of someone for being disabled is just telling lies. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/135 "2008-09-14T06:00:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > McCain can type - it’s just painful for him. Probably because you have to have your arms lifted from your side to do it. So his wife does most of the typing, and they go online together. The evidence is that he cannot lift his arms over his head, not from his side. If that was so painful, which would reduce his reaction time, why would they let him fly? My father-in-law is 93. His fingers hurt now, but he can use a computer just fine. As for the rest of your post, any evidence that someone for whom using Google is a challenge developed a sophisticated web strategy? Maybe someone who was an expert did it for him? I don’t credit Obama for developing his either, by the way. ETA - BTW my father, who is 92, doesn’t use a computer. He’d make a crappy president - and his unwillingness to learn is one reason why. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/136 "2008-09-14T06:12:37Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I suppose you could use the same argument about reading and writing. He could have things read to him and dictate. But that’s not the point is it? The point is that the fact that he knows nothing about using a computer makes him ignorant of something which is considered basic knowledge in our times and which kids learn in school. That is what the ad is pointing out. Just the fact. Each one can make their own conclusions. If you think it does not matter then fine. But if you think you would prefer a president somewhat more literate then that might be one point in favor of voting for the literate candidate rather than the illiterate one. Oh, cut the bullshit. Computer literacy is not the same as literacy. One of the most well-read persons I have ever met is my ex-girlfriends 90-year-old grandfather. Never used a computer. No desire to (except recently for getting pictures of his great-grandkids emailed to him). But he reads voraciously: books, papers, and scientific journals. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/137 "2008-09-14T06:17:19Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Ask McCain that. He keeps saying that he’s tryin to learn how. Sure. Why not. Maybe he wants to do it for emailing. Maybe for other stuff. But the idea that he needs to be computer literate to help him keep informed is nonsense. If I want to be informed and keep up with current events and other issues, a computer allows me to do that much better than if I didn’t have one. But if I could just tell people, go get me all the info on issues A, C and F. That would be a much better use of my time. Especially since I’d also tell them to sift through all the redundancy, outdated material, and bullshit first. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/138 "2008-09-14T06:55:22Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I really appreciate some of the returning posters coming into this thread and pretending my posting upthread says something not even remotely what it does. Once more, and I’ll gladly carry this discussion further in The BBQ Pit. Maybe if a lot of people don’t understand what you posted, you could clarify what your point is? Come on, help us dumb folk out. I know we’re beneath you and all, but I’d appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/139 "2008-09-14T07:08:45Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > But the question _why_ is McCain still computer illiterate is one that may reveal something about his character. Computer literacy may not be needed for a president, but given all the committee hearings, coordination, vote negotiations, and just day-to-day business that a senator must do, why hasn’t he asked an aide just to show him a few basic things? The Obama camp is essentially arguing that the fact that he seems to have remained in the dark about computers from at least 2000 until now indicates that McCain is stubborn, willfully ignorant in this area and refuses to adapt to changing times. And that these qualities may be true about more than just computers. Absolutely. That McCain is a technological moron is not the only question. What is also important is WHY he has CHOSEN to keep himself on the trailing edge. Deny it if you like, but the internet has become a faster and more-complete means of accessing data. To blow it off shows McCain to be dangerously uninformed. If you have to wait for the Extras coming out of the print media you are HOURS behind the times. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493/140 "2008-09-14T07:09:41Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But the idea that he needs to be computer literate to help him keep informed is nonsense. True in many senses, especially at the POTUS level. At what level does Internet/computer literacy become irrelevant? What about Cabinet-level secretaries? What about the head of the DOE or DOJ, who also have 'round the clock staff available and armies of researchers at their disposal – do they need to have any experience with a computer? And is computer savvyness _really_ what it’s all about? Do you think that was the point of the ad? Do you really think the message was “McCain isn’t qualified to be POTUS because he won’t be able to use the Internet to its fullest advantage!”? Do you think that’s the reason why most of the posters hold it against him? Oh, and sorry to be pedantic about it, but could you take just two seconds to say something like “the OP is poppycock IMHO, but the reasons for his unfamiliarity are irrelevant” or something like that? (By the way, am I conflating Internet usage with basic computer literacy? I’m assuming there is a close connection, but is there any indication that McCain uses Word just fine, but not the Internet? Hard stretch, but it could be there.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-ridicules-mccains-disability/463493.md?page=8)