# Obama says cops acted stupidly in Gates incident **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995 "2009-07-23T14:37:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/261 "2009-07-25T00:11:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But what I don’t see is how you derive that Mr. Gates is a “professional victim”. Point of order … “Harvard-trained” professional victim. They don’t train 'em like that at Yale. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/262 "2009-07-25T01:08:43Z")
> [@ashman165](#): > > Or a guy who expects an officer to know who he is after he’s presented identification indicating he is who he says he is and lives where, well, where he lives. You don’t get to come into my home and be a big fucking asshole to me, either. > > It isn’t about race; it’s about professional demeanor, of which this cop is severely lacking. The university ID does not contain address information. The officer asked for a driver’s license, which Gates refused to provide. Had he provided ID with a photo AND address, this would have been over and the officer gone, but no Gates needed to create a scene so he could play the race card. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/263 "2009-07-25T01:17:52Z")
[http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/07/media-ignoring-prior-claims-of-harvard-police-racism/](http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/07/media-ignoring-prior-claims-of-harvard-police-racism/) The Harvard police have been undergoing charges of racial profiling for a while. Other faculty have been profiled and treated like thieves. The police were undergoing some training because of problems. This was not a one time incident. ---
**Author:** ![haymarketmartyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/35a633/32.png) [@haymarketmartyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/haymarketmartyr)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/264 "2009-07-25T02:00:33Z")
The instant the police officer determined that the man who had broke into the house was the homeowner he should have left no matter what was being said to him. I always thought the right wing was into the whole “a mans home is his castle” thing. What happened? Oh - a black President happened. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/265 "2009-07-25T02:32:00Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > The university ID does not contain address information. The officer asked for a driver’s license, which Gates refused to provide. Had he provided ID with a photo AND address, this would have been over and the officer gone, but no Gates needed to create a scene so he could play the race card. You know, in this day and age, what with all the fancy geegaws we got, its not that hard to find out if this guy lives at that address. Why, I hear ol’ Dick Tracy’s got himself a two-way wrist radio! Does Gates have a driver’s license? Do you know that he refused to offer it, or have you only a particpants word on that? > [@](#): > > …Had he provided ID with a photo AND address, this would have been over and the officer gone, but no Gates needed to create a scene so he could play the race card… Says who? Did the officer say that? You have a wondrous amount of information, must you be so modest about your sources? ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/266 "2009-07-25T04:19:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You know, in this day and age, what with all the fancy geegaws we got, its not that hard to find out if this guy lives at that address. Why, I hear ol’ Dick Tracy’s got himself a two-way wrist radio! Which is what the officer was trying to use but had to step outside due to the volume of Gate’s verbal abuse > [@](#): > > Does Gates have a driver’s license? Do you know that he refused to offer it, or have you only a particpants word on that? report only states that he refused to provide an alternate ID. I’d be shocked in this day of fancy geegaws that he would not have some type of picture ID that included his address > [@](#): > > Says who? Did the officer say that? You have a wondrous amount of information, must you be so modest about your sources? This part is my conclusion based the evidence provided to date. There’s been so many offered on this thread already, I figured one more wouldn’t hurt ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/267 "2009-07-25T05:20:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You know, in this day and age, what with all the fancy geegaws we got, its not that hard to find out if this guy lives at that address. You mean like one of them new fangled licenses with a picture on it and an address? Too complicated for a PHD’d Harvard Professor? Gates could have produced his license in the time it took him to cry wolf. The person delaying the departure of the police was Gates (in addition to being an asshole about it). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/268 "2009-07-25T06:10:26Z")
He produced a picture ID from Harvard, yes? But his refusal to provide a picture ID with an address stymied and blocked the officer’s effort to verify…ah, what, exactly? No access to a phone book? Dex online? Google? A neighbor’s door? You are guys are fairly bright, bet you could think of half a dozen ways to verify that he lived there in about two minutes flat, if there was a nude picture of Janet Reno in it for you. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/269 "2009-07-25T07:18:16Z")
Officer after traffic stop: "Good evening. We’ve had a report a car just like the one you’re driving was stolen. May I see your driver’s license and registration please? Gatesian hothead: "Fuck you, you profilin’ motherfucker! I don’t gotta show you shit! Officer: “Oh. Okay, nevermind. Pardon the intrusion. C’mon Joe, let’s canvas the neighborhood and see if we can find anyone who can verify that this guy is the rightful owner of this car.” :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/270 "2009-07-25T07:33:38Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > Yup. Because every one needs to accept that kind of abuse Not everyone. But cops, yeah, they should be able to handle that kind of abuse. It comes with the job. > [@haymarketmartyr](#): > > The instant the police officer determined that the man who had broke into the house was the homeowner he should have left no matter what was being said to him. Right. Everything after learning Gates was the homeowner is on the cop’s head. There’s absolutely no reason to stick around. Sticking around was a stupid action. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/271 "2009-07-25T07:53:51Z")
**Starving Artist** , I don’t think that you or I can begin to understand the indignity that builds up over time of nearly always having certain negative assumptions made about you. It is not funny _ever_. Do you really blame this man for becoming frustrated? (I don’t fault the policeman entirely. He’s probably just needs better training.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/272 "2009-07-25T08:00:45Z")
Thanks, **Zoe** , but he nailed it, that analogy is perfectly spot on. Really, there’s nobody like **Starving Artist** when it comes to exposing the hypocrisy of the left. Wish he’d take up knitting so we could win one once in a while, but he’s just too sharp for us. Curses! Foiled again! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/273 "2009-07-25T08:06:43Z")
Not knowing what went on between the two men in the early stages of the situation, I can’t really speak to whether Gates was justified in his behavior. I do know that a black officer who was there said Gates reacted “strangely” and the the arresting officer was 100% correct in doing so. I also know that unless you want to bring more shit down on your head than you are likely to want to contend with in terms of sitting at least overnight in a jail cell, waiting to be arraigned and going through the hassle of arranging bail, you don’t respond to legitimate police requests with anger, accusations and threats. The police cannot do their jobs and maintain respect in the community if they allow people to abuse them as Gates did when they were doing nothing but legitimately investigating a report of a break-in at that house. I would think that someone without a chip on his shoulder would be more than happy to address the police in a polite and helpful manner and do whatever was necessary to clear up the misunderstanding. Now, having said all that, my post above was intended to make light of **elucidator’s** silly suggestion that the police should have left Gates ranting at the door while they went on a canvassing mission around the neighborhood to try to find out from neighbors if he was actually the person who lived there. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/274 "2009-07-25T12:56:34Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **Starving Artist** , I don’t think that you or I can begin to understand the indignity that builds up over time of nearly always having certain negative assumptions made about you. It is not funny _ever_. Yes, cops do get a daily dose of crap from the people they deal with. Getting it from someone who is suppose to be in the upper echelon of society with an above average education makes it that much worse. It’s hard to imagine what they go through. > [@Zoe](#): > > Do you really blame this man for becoming frustrated? (I don’t fault the policeman entirely. He’s probably just needs better training.) Yes I blame the man for becoming frustrated. The policeman was properly trained and is in fact, the person who does the training. Gates is a tenured minor celebrity who acts like a tenured minor celebrity. I can only imagine the crap his students have to endure if they don’t worship at his feet. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/275 "2009-07-25T13:07:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He produced a picture ID from Harvard, yes? But his refusal to provide a picture ID with an address stymied and blocked the officer’s effort to verify…ah, what, exactly? That he was the owner of the home and not a burglar posing as the owner with a phony ID. > [@elucidator](#): > > No access to a phone book? Dex online? Google? A neighbor’s door? You are guys are fairly bright, bet you could think of half a dozen ways to verify that he lived there in about two minutes flat, if there was a nude picture of Janet Reno in it for you. He had access to the most logical piece of information and that is Gates and his license. It was 5 seconds of Gates’ time but his highness was too busy spewing his racial and social hatred of cops. It would be irresponsible for the officer to leave without verifying Gates is who he says he is. It doesn’t matter if the officer is 70% sure the guy is the homeowner. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/276 "2009-07-25T15:00:51Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > … (I don’t fault the policeman entirely. He’s probably just needs better training.) Doesn’t he [Crowley] teach a class about racial profiling? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/277 "2009-07-25T15:13:36Z")
Most thieves do not bring luggage. Gates had just returned from China. His ID was sufficient. The problem was Crowley’s ego. Instead of leaving after he figured out that Gates lived there, his feelings got hurt. He probably figured he was not given the respect his uniform, gun and authority demand. But, a lot of people do not have warm and fuzzy feelings for cops. They see them as oppressors easily overstepping bounds when confronting a minority. It is stupid to arrest someone for an imaginary crime. Disrespect is not a crime that can be defined easily. It changes from viewpoint and sensitivity. Many cops would have walked away muttering asshole under their breath. He should have done that. He was asking for trouble . ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/278 "2009-07-25T15:19:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That he was the owner of the home and not a burglar posing as the owner with a phony ID… How tall are you? Be OK if we call you “Stretch”? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/279 "2009-07-25T15:36:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How tall are you? Be OK if we call you “Stretch”? When I was a kid, my parents got divorced. My father moved out of the house and my mother had to get a job. One day while my mother was at work, my father came back to the house, broke in, and stole all our furniture. If the police had showed up he would have been able to show them an ID showing that he lived there. If the police had been utter incompetents, they would have looked at the ID and then walked away, assuming everything was alright. When the police get a report of a break-in, and someone has an ID showing they live there, they had damn well better talk to the guy for a little to get a read on him. If they don’t, then they’re not doing their job. Someone who actually belongs there will understand why the police are chatting to him. Someone who shouldn’t be there will start acting aggressive and strange. Back to my story, my neighbors called the police (they knew there’d been a divorce), but the police never showed up. Too bad I didn’t grow up in Cambridge, because it really sucked not having any furniture. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/280 "2009-07-25T15:49:31Z")
OK, so now it’s a “teachable moment”. I think we all just need a big, collective hug. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995.md?page=15)