# Obama says cops acted stupidly in Gates incident **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995 "2009-07-23T14:37:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/281 "2009-07-25T16:06:52Z")
Sure hope Obama has two forms of picture identification. With his address. Snarkitude aside, I think the Obamessiah is spot on with this. [http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/24/both\_were\_wrong\_but\_one\_was\_wronger/](http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/24/both_were_wrong_but_one_was_wronger/) \* Talking Points Memo\* prints a very sensible analysis of this, titled **Both Were Wrong, But One Was Wronger** Sums it up nicely, in my estimation. As is frequently the case, the comments section on this piece is also very insightful. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/282 "2009-07-25T17:40:26Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **Starving Artist** , I don’t think that you or I can begin to understand the indignity that builds up over time of nearly always having certain negative assumptions made about you. It is not funny _ever_. Do you really blame this man for becoming frustrated? Right, right - there can’t be any explanation besides racism when the police want to see your ID after you break down the front door of a house. Bigotry, pure and simple - no doubt about that. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Duggy\_Fizzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Duggy\_Fizzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duggy_Fizzle)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/283 "2009-07-25T18:06:30Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > When the police get a report of a break-in, and someone has an ID showing they live there, they had damn well better talk to the guy for a little to get a read on him. If they don’t, then they’re not doing their job. Someone who actually belongs there will understand why the police are chatting to him. Someone who shouldn’t be there will start acting aggressive and strange. This is exactly correct. I’ve been on numerous calls of burglary/break in/suspicious situation where the proper person was on the premises and the call was ultimately unfounded. The most negative reaction I’ve had is someone being mildly perturbed with my standing in their kitchen, but as soon as we tell them why we are there, they are understanding and we usually engage in some small talk while I get their information. The fact that Gates completely blew up would set off my bullshit detector, too. Something just wasn’t right with Gates’ reaction. That’s probably why they didn’t leave as soon as they determined his identity. Maybe he was going through a divorce and wasn’t supposed to be there. Maybe he was evicted recently. Maybe he moved and just hadn’t changed his driver’s license info. It could be a thousand reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/284 "2009-07-25T18:59:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You mean like one of them new fangled licenses with a picture on it and an address? Too complicated for a PHD’d Harvard Professor? > > Gates could have produced his license in the time it took him to cry wolf. The person delaying the departure of the police was Gates (in addition to being an asshole about it). Gates says that he [provided both the Harvard ID and a Massachusetts drivers licence.](http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,1) > [@](#): > > I turned and closed the front door to the kitchen where I’d left my wallet, and I got out my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license which includes my address and I handed them to him. And he’s sitting there looking at them. If this is true, then I think that recontextualizes his blow up considerably. His version of events differs in its particulars from Crowley’s in several ways, so it’s worth reading from the beginning to see them all. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/285 "2009-07-25T19:01:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And now the [White House Press Secretary](http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99KBLHO0&show_article=1) is “qualifying” the President’s words. So we’re in the “what the President meant to say” mode. Gibbs’ statements have always given the impression that he rode the short bus to school, and this doesn’t help make him seem any brighter. “I didn’t say you **were** a big dummyhead, I said you **acted like** a big dummyhead!” didn’t convince our second grade teachers, so how does he expect anyone to be convinced that there’s a huge qualitative difference between calling the police stupid and saying what they did was stupid? I expected more elegant back pedaling than this. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/286 "2009-07-25T19:24:21Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Gates says that he [provided both the Harvard ID and a Massachusetts drivers licence.](http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,1) > > If this is true, then I think that recontextualizes his blow up considerably. His version of events differs in its particulars from Crowley’s in several ways, so it’s worth reading from the beginning to see them all. It wont matter. Those who find Gates at fault will accept the cops side as fact. I suspect the neighbors who had to be disturbed by the screaming of the evil Gates could have assured the cop ,that he did indeed live there. They may have .But Crowley was having none of that. A lesson had to be taught. ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/287 "2009-07-25T19:28:01Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Gibbs’ statements have always given the impression that he rode the short bus to school, and this doesn’t help make him seem any brighter. “I didn’t say you **were** a big dummyhead, I said you **acted like** a big dummyhead!” didn’t convince our second grade teachers, so how does he expect anyone to be convinced that there’s a huge qualitative difference between calling the police stupid and saying what they did was stupid? I expected more elegant back pedaling than this. It does indeed seem like the Obama White House is starting down the Clinton-esque ‘meaning of is, is’ path a little earlier than I expected. We’ve already gotten in with taxes and jobs ‘created or saved’. Next up, health care. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/288 "2009-07-25T19:55:10Z")
Now, they’re all meeting for beer at the Whitehouse. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/289 "2009-07-25T19:55:52Z")
> [@Duggy\_Fizzle](#): > > This is exactly correct. I’ve been on numerous calls of burglary/break in/suspicious situation where the proper person was on the premises and the call was ultimately unfounded. The most negative reaction I’ve had is someone being mildly perturbed with my standing in their kitchen, but as soon as we tell them why we are there, they are understanding and we usually engage in some small talk while I get their information. > > The fact that Gates completely blew up would set off my bullshit detector, too. Something just wasn’t right with Gates’ reaction. That’s probably why they didn’t leave as soon as they determined his identity. Maybe he was going through a divorce and wasn’t supposed to be there. Maybe he was evicted recently. Maybe he moved and just hadn’t changed his driver’s license info. It could be a thousand reasons. None of which gives a police officer PC that a crime has been, or is being committed such that they are entitled to remain where they clearly aren’t wanted. Indeed, there is no articulable suspicion which can work in your favor. Remaining on the property after being asked to get out, whether you have a badge or not, without some legal authority to remain there is a crime itself. You aren’t immune, and your hunches and gut reactions don’t provide you with some legal reason to break the law. That’s not precisely the case here, but your bullshit meter is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/290 "2009-07-25T20:29:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Right, right - there can’t be any explanation besides racism when the police want to see your ID after you break down the front door of a house. > > Bigotry, pure and simple - no doubt about that… He broke down the front door of his house? Really? Hadn’t heard about that. Battering ram, was it? Sledge hammer? Shaped charge? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/291 "2009-07-25T20:58:05Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Read post 196. Twenty years without a complaint. “Twenty years without a complaint” is not synonymous with “Never making even a single mistake in dealing with the public.” So please try again. Where did any police officer in this thread ever claim that he or she has never committed a single error in his public dealings as representative of the law? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/292 "2009-07-25T21:16:10Z")
Sure got him there, pardner! Out the masses of serving police officers adding to this conversation, not one of that throng has said such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/293 "2009-07-25T22:05:06Z")
Just to put everything in context, **gonzomax** was the one who said, “Every cop member of this board will claim to be perfect in their dealings with the public.” Frankly, I see no reason whatsoever to accept that claim. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/294 "2009-07-25T22:32:30Z")
I take your point. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/295 "2009-07-26T03:34:36Z")
[Obama Was Right About the Gates Arrest | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-winkler/obama-was-right-about-the_b_244888.html) Here’s the death blow to the cop. Mass. law no longer says it is a crime to yell at a cop. The courts say you can not arrest someone for that because it is a suppression of free speech. It has been accepted in court ,so the cop was wrong to arrest him. that qualifiies as stupid. It was against the law. The cop was wrong, wrong, wrong. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/296 "2009-07-26T03:41:20Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Read post 196. Twenty years without a complaint. I never saw a cop post that he had a bad day and a citizen suffered because of it. Cops rarely admit making mistakes . It would be a sign of weakness. > Officer Crowley made one. Hold on there, junior. I said 20 years without a valid complaint. If you’re in doing things to people they don’t like, they’re going to complain once in a while. When they do, if you’ve done everything right and stayed on the good side of the line, the complaints are dismissed. Further, I never said I didn’t make a mistake, I’ve made plenty and make one every so often cause I’m human. However, I’ve never knowingly violated the law in the course of my job, I’ve never knowingly violated someone’s civil rights and I wouldn’t because I don’t want to be the kind of guy they write TV shows and books about. Bad public servants are the bane of the good ones, because they cause people like you to paint us all with the broadest of brushes. It seems to me that Officer Crowley is a good one who made a choice that got attention. That doesn’t mean he made a mistake, it means some don’t agree with his decision to arrest. I do agree with it, and would likely do the same thing were I in his position. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/297 "2009-07-26T03:52:11Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Obama Was Right About the Gates Arrest | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-winkler/obama-was-right-about-the_b_244888.html) Here’s the death blow to the cop. Mass. law no longer says it is a crime to yell at a cop. The courts say you can not arrest someone for that because it is a suppression of free speech. It has been accepted in court ,so the cop was wrong to arrest him. that qualifiies as stupid. It was against the law. The cop was wrong, wrong, wrong. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/298 "2009-07-26T22:36:29Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Hold on there, junior. I said 20 years without a valid complaint. If you’re in doing things to people they don’t like, they’re going to complain once in a while. When they do, if you’ve done everything right and stayed on the good side of the line, the complaints are dismissed. > > Further, I never said I didn’t make a mistake, I’ve made plenty and make one every so often cause I’m human. However, I’ve never knowingly violated the law in the course of my job, I’ve never knowingly violated someone’s civil rights and I wouldn’t because I don’t want to be the kind of guy they write TV shows and books about. Bad public servants are the bane of the good ones, because they cause people like you to paint us all with the broadest of brushes. > > It seems to me that Officer Crowley is a good one who made a choice that got attention. That doesn’t mean he made a mistake, it means some don’t agree with his decision to arrest. I do agree with it, and would likely do the same thing were I in his position. Would you do it if yelling at a cop was not breaking the law? That is what Crowley did and he should have known better. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/299 "2009-07-26T22:47:01Z")
Lets go one step farther. Why would any cop arrest a guy for yelling at him (assuming that is actually what happened). Was he a threat to the citizens? Was he a danger to someone? Or perhaps he hurt the cops ego? But if the mission is to protect and to serve, who was Crowley protecting and serving except himself ? If you can not tolerate people yelling at you, stay out of public service. There are lots of goofy people around . They should be ignored. Taking the time and trouble to arrest someone for not providing the respect you think you have is immature. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/300 "2009-07-27T15:49:12Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Lets go one step farther. Why would any cop arrest a guy for yelling at him (assuming that is actually what happened). Was he a threat to the citizens? Was he a danger to someone? Or perhaps he hurt the cops ego? But if the mission is to protect and to serve, who was Crowley protecting and serving except himself ? If you can not tolerate people yelling at you, stay out of public service. There are lots of goofy people around . They should be ignored. Taking the time and trouble to arrest someone for not providing the respect you think you have is immature. I’m sure the cop would answer something about the peace of the land or some such. That’s what disorderly statutes are about: protecting the civility and peace of the land. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995.md?page=16)