# Obama says cops acted stupidly in Gates incident **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995 "2009-07-23T14:37:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/301 "2009-07-27T16:37:19Z")
One has to wonder… If Dr Gates had a white student, who went on a yelling tirade, tellling him he was racists, incompetent, a plagarist, that he was abusing his authority, that students have rights, that professors work for students because students pay for proffs and without students proffs would be flipping burgers rather being allowed to be all high and mighty, and that he was profiling by assuming that a young student couldnt possibly be right. Would Dr Gates TOTALLY ignore all that bull mularky, or would the student likely, or even just possibly, suffer a tough road ahead grade wise? If I had to bet, I’d bet that Dr Gates is a bit full of himself (at least in this instance) and perhaps got under the thumb of someone who had authority over him and did to him what he would possibly to someone else given similar circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/302 "2009-07-27T16:51:51Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **Starving Artist** , I don’t think that you or I can begin to understand the indignity that builds up over time of nearly always having certain negative assumptions made about you. It is not funny _ever_. Do you really blame this man for becoming frustrated? (I don’t fault the policeman entirely. He’s probably just needs better training.) What? Put him in a camp? Reeducation for the masses? Creepy. The cop should have gone back to his car and used his onboard computer. However, Gates was being a shrill, obnoxious prick and made life difficult for the policeman. He escalated a situation that didn’t need to be escalated. Gates did that, not the cops. So now he’s doing everything he can to blame everyone but himself. The real sad thing is that otherwise resonable people can’t see this for what it is. It’s all about Gates and that’s all it’s about. Nice of you not to fault the policeman given that, you know, he pretty much did the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/303 "2009-07-27T17:05:40Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > One has to wonder… > > If Dr Gates had a white student, who went on a yelling tirade, tellling him he was racists, incompetent, a plagarist, that he was abusing his authority, that students have rights, that professors work for students because students pay for proffs and without students proffs would be flipping burgers rather being allowed to be all high and mighty, and that he was profiling by assuming that a young student couldnt possibly be right. > > Would Dr Gates TOTALLY ignore all that bull mularky, or would the student likely, or even just possibly, suffer a tough road ahead grade wise? > > If I had to bet, I’d bet that Dr Gates is a bit full of himself (at least in this instance) and perhaps got under the thumb of someone who had authority over him and did to him what he would possibly to someone else given similar circumstances. Any college prof who’s been at for any period of time experiences student tirades like this all the time. It’s water off a duck’s back. So no, it’s highly unlikely that Gates would retaliate by sabotaging the student’s grade. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/304 "2009-07-27T17:12:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Any college prof who’s been at for any period of time experiences student tirades like this all the time. It’s water off a duck’s back. So no, it’s highly unlikely that Gates would retaliate by sabotaging the student’s grade. Besides, even if he did, it wouldn’t be the right thing to do. I don’t know how this argument is supposed to justify the cop’s behavior in this incident. Didn’t anyone ever teach you that “two wrongs don’t make a right,” **billfish678**? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/305 "2009-07-27T17:22:43Z")
A professor would not be justified in “sabotaging the student’s grade,” but he would be perfectly justified in reporting the student to the administration and recommending disciplinary action. If the student is working for the professor (as a graduate student, for example), then the professor would even be justified in firing that person. A professor most certainly is NOT obligated to ignore the tirade and letting the abuse roll off like water on a duck’s back. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/306 "2009-07-27T17:24:28Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Besides, even if he did, it wouldn’t be the right thing to do. I don’t know how this argument is supposed to justify the cop’s behavior in this incident. Didn’t anyone ever teach you that “two wrongs don’t make a right,” **billfish678**? I chalk it up to Karma. And like cops, the large majority of proffs I “know” are great folks. But I’ve known a few who are pricks with power and do what the hell they want, like some cops. It takes two to tango, and Gates was AT LEAST (IMO), if not significantly more so, as responsible for the mess he ended up in. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/307 "2009-07-27T17:29:01Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > A professor would not be justified in “sabotaging the student’s grade,” but he would be perfectly justified in reporting the student to the administration and recommending disciplinary action. If the student is working for the professor (as a graduate student, for example), then the professor would even be justified in firing that person. > > A professor most certainly is NOT obligated to ignore the tirade and letting the abuse roll off like water on a duck’s back. so, the question is, IS A COP required to act like a duck? Some folks think cops should take ANY shit thrown at em. Me, not so much. And thats even after having to deal with a few that I’d do just about anything to if I was sure I could get away with after dealing with them. So, I certainly aint no cop lover by any stretch. To me, the arrest is the process equivalent of “letting God sort it out” after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/308 "2009-07-27T17:53:20Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > The university ID does not contain address information. The officer asked for a driver’s license, which Gates refused to provide. Had he provided ID with a photo AND address, this would have been over and the officer gone, but no Gates needed to create a scene so he could play the race card. Actually, that’s not true. According to the secret reports which are publicly available, he provided both his Harvard ID and his Driver’s License. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/309 "2009-07-27T17:58:40Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > One has to wonder… > > If Dr Gates had a white student, who went on a yelling tirade, tellling him he was racists, incompetent, a plagarist, that he was abusing his authority, that students have rights, that professors work for students because students pay for proffs and without students proffs would be flipping burgers rather being allowed to be all high and mighty, and that he was profiling by assuming that a young student couldnt possibly be right. > > Would Dr Gates TOTALLY ignore all that bull mularky, or would the student likely, or even just possibly, suffer a tough road ahead grade wise? > > If I had to bet, I’d bet that Dr Gates is a bit full of himself (at least in this instance) and perhaps got under the thumb of someone who had authority over him and did to him what he would possibly to someone else given similar circumstances. This is totally a figment of your imagination and has no basis in fact. It has nothing to do with the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/310 "2009-07-27T17:59:33Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > A professor would not be justified in “sabotaging the student’s grade,” but he would be perfectly justified in reporting the student to the administration and recommending disciplinary action. If the student is working for the professor (as a graduate student, for example), then the professor would even be justified in firing that person. Where you really lose out with professors/police is in the area of discretion. You’re a day late turning in your paper, but have a really good excuse, that tirade is going rear its ugly head, and you may very well wind up losing points instead of having the prof use his discretion to let it slide. Then he reads the paper, and your tirade is going to be back there reminding the prof that you’re a stupid jerk every time he turns the page. I don’t expect any more out of professors than I do police, they’re human, and if you piss them off, any interaction with them is going to go worse for you, even if they are decent and honest people. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/311 "2009-07-27T18:03:10Z")
THe police are not saints, Dr. gates is no saint. People fuck up, make mistakes, act stupidly, act impulsively, say and do stupid stuff. Not all the time, but we are all capable of having our moments. And it is entirely possible that both sides of an altercation can be guilty of these things. These are not the marks of terrible, racist, idiotic or evil people. These are the marks of ordinary people acting the way people sometimes do. The fact of the matter is both sides of this…and Obama…are moving on, having settled and owned up to their mistakes. it is not worthy of more debate, to be quite honest. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/312 "2009-07-27T18:13:25Z")
Let’s be clear here - the first person who racially profiled anyone was Gates. He assumed that since a white cop showed up at his door, it was obviously racially movitated and the cop was a redneck racist. He immediately began shouting that this was all because he was a black man. Any bets that if it had been a black cop who showed up, Gates wouldn’t have reacted in the same way? Second, as was pointed out before, when a person starts screaming at a cop in public, and won’t stop, an arrest is very likely. Try it. Walk up to a cop somewhere and start screaming and ranting at him. Let us know what happens. And there’s a good reason for his. If the social convention was that people could tee off on cops doing their job, it would be a bad thing. Cops want to maintain a zone of calm and order around them as they are doing their job. It’s in everyone’s interest for this to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/313 "2009-07-27T18:19:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Let’s be clear here - the first person who racially profiled anyone was Gates. He assumed that since a white cop showed up at his door, it was obviously racially movitated and the cop was a redneck racist. He immediately began shouting that this was all because he was a black man… **Sam** , have you always had telepathic powers, or did you get bit by a radioactive beaver? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/314 "2009-07-27T18:22:47Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Where you really lose out with professors/police is in the area of discretion. You’re a day late turning in your paper, but have a really good excuse, that tirade is going rear its ugly head, and you may very well wind up losing points instead of having the prof use his discretion to let it slide. Then he reads the paper, and your tirade is going to be back there reminding the prof that you’re a stupid jerk every time he turns the page. > > I don’t expect any more out of professors than I do police, they’re human, and if you piss them off, any interaction with them is going to go worse for you, even if they are decent and honest people. Bingo. I’ve had students ask politely for deadline extensions, etc., and I usually give it. But when they get pissy and act entitled? Probably not. And obviously, I wouldn’t put up with a student screaming at me. I’m trying to do a job, and having to take unnecessary abuse makes it harder. I don’t know any prof that would take it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/315 "2009-07-27T18:33:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **Sam** , have you always had telepathic powers, or did you get bit by a radioactive beaver? Yes, I telepathically read the police report. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/316 "2009-07-27T19:20:22Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Let’s be clear here - the first person who racially profiled anyone was Gates. He assumed that since a white cop showed up at his door, it was obviously racially movitated and the cop was a redneck racist. He immediately began shouting that this was all because he was a black man. > > Any bets that if it had been a black cop who showed up, Gates wouldn’t have reacted in the same way? > > Second, as was pointed out before, when a person starts screaming at a cop in public, and won’t stop, an arrest is very likely. Try it. Walk up to a cop somewhere and start screaming and ranting at him. Let us know what happens. > > And there’s a good reason for his. If the social convention was that people could tee off on cops doing their job, it would be a bad thing. Cops want to maintain a zone of calm and order around them as they are doing their job. It’s in everyone’s interest for this to be the case. Lets be clear here. You are making shit up. You do not know what Gates felt or thought. He did give the cops the proof they needed. That should have been the end. But since the Mass. court ruled the police can not arrest people for yelling at cops, I think you have it all wrong. The cop had no right to arrest him. Please define when yelling is too loud. That would be fun by itself. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/317 "2009-07-27T19:36:57Z")
[The 911 call and the radio followup with the office on the scene are posted at ABC News.](http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=8184395) From what I heard, it sounds like some old white woman saw 2 black guys going into a yellow house, and lacking the balls to call the police herself, she approached a neighbor and got her to call it in. So the cops had 2nd hand information to begin with, and that information amounted to “2 guys with suitcases just went into a house, and they are still inside.” Later, on the radio call, we can hear someone saying that the resident of the house is Louis Henry Gates. Then the officer on the scene tells them to keep sending cars and asks if a paddy wagon is otw. Seems like a right fuck up to me. If you know who lives there, and one of the guys has ID showing that he has the same name as the resident, why would you arrest him? Total fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/318 "2009-07-27T19:43:19Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Bingo. I’ve had students ask politely for deadline extensions, etc., and I usually give it. But when they get pissy and act entitled? Probably not. > > And obviously, I wouldn’t put up with a student screaming at me. I’m trying to do a job, and having to take unnecessary abuse makes it harder. I don’t know any prof that would take it. I presume you aren’t teaching a course in law, right? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/319 "2009-07-27T19:47:24Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Second, as was pointed out before, when a person starts screaming at a cop in public, and won’t stop, an arrest is very likely. Try it. Walk up to a cop somewhere and start screaming and ranting at him. Let us know what happens. Ah. Got it. So you’re equating what _does_ happen with what _should_ happen. So I assume that in your world, if some mouthy broad is nags you too much, it’s OK to smash her in the mouth. > [@](#): > > And there’s a good reason for his. If the social convention was that people could tee off on cops doing their job, it would be a bad thing. Cops want to maintain a zone of calm and order around them as they are doing their job. It’s in everyone’s interest for this to be the case. We should also arrest anyone appearing at a political rally or opposing the current leaders. Quashing such quaint notions of freedom of expression or freedom to petition the government will lead to a much better society. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/320 "2009-07-27T19:59:03Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [The 911 call and the radio followup with the office on the scene are posted at ABC News.](http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=8184395) > > From what I heard, it sounds like some old white woman saw 2 black guys going into a yellow house, and lacking the balls to call the police herself, she approached a neighbor and got her to call it in. So the cops had 2nd hand information to begin with, and that information amounted to “2 guys with suitcases just went into a house, and they are still inside.” > > Later, on the radio call, we can hear someone saying that the resident of the house is Louis Henry Gates. Then the officer on the scene tells them to keep sending cars and asks if a paddy wagon is otw. > > Seems like a right fuck up to me. If you know who lives there, and one of the guys has ID showing that he has the same name as the resident, why would you arrest him? Total fuck up. This does seem to show that he proved who he was, and instead of fucking off like they were supposed to do, they called for more cars and a paddy wagon. I don’t know if it was racism. It was probably more of a dick measuring contest, but the cops at the scene clearly went beyond doing their job. This tape further exonerates Gates and indicts the cops. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995.md?page=17)