# Obama says cops acted stupidly in Gates incident **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995 "2009-07-23T14:37:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/61 "2009-07-23T16:53:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > No. Even if we don’t have the whole story right now and Gates did some other things that would convince even you that the cop was in the right, the PR nightmare is still going to happen. As long as their are people like Gates and Sharpton round, they will make sure that is the case. Is there a reason you lump Prof. Gates and Al Sharpton together? Do you have a cite that links them together by behaviour? I mean Al Sharpton has a long list of infamous deeds, can you point to Prof. Gates having similar ones or is this because Prof. Gates felt he was treated poorly because of race and commented on it; he’s one of **‘them’**? Is he and Al Sharpton interchangeble in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/62 "2009-07-23T16:54:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He was directly _asked_ about it, and he started by _admitting_ that Gates was a friend of his and that he was biased. I also think that if he’d refused to comment at all, he’d have been bludgeoned for “avoiding the question,” so I don’t see his answer as a problem, particularly since it was so honest. The only people taht are going to act upset about it are those in the same echo chamber who already hate him anyway. Not at all. What I think would have been the better response would have been to omit the details of the specific incident (including the conclusory “stupid” comment) on the grounds that the man’s a friend of his and he’s going to be a bit biased, and he doesn’t know the specifics anyway. Hell, he says all that and _then_ goes on to make conclusory statements! Therein lies the problem. My edited version: > [@](#): > > Q Thank you, Mr. President. Recently Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. was arrested at his home in Cambridge. What does that incident say to you and what does it say about race relations in America? > > THE PRESIDENT: Well, I should say at the outset that “Skip” Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don’t know all the facts. So, in fairness to everyone involved, and not having been there and not seeing all the facts, I’m not going to comment on this specific incident. > > However, I think it’s fair to say separate and apart from this incident that there is a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That’s just a fact. > > As you know, Lynn, when I was in the state legislature in Illinois, we worked on a racial profiling bill because there was indisputable evidence that blacks and Hispanics were being stopped disproportionately. And that is a sign, an example of how, you know, race remains a factor in this society. That doesn’t lessen the incredible progress that has been made. I am standing here as testimony to the progress that’s been made. > > And yet the fact of the matter is, is that this still haunts us. And even when there are honest misunderstandings, the fact that blacks and Hispanics are picked up more frequently and oftentime for no cause casts suspicion even when there is good cause. And that’s why I think the more that we’re working with local law enforcement to improve policing techniques so that we’re eliminating potential bias, the safer everybody is going to be. The important points are still made. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/63 "2009-07-23T16:56:11Z")
Charges are dropped all the time. That doesn’t automatically make the arrest “stupid”. From the facts AS WE KNOW THEM, it was probably a mistake to arrest him. But none of us was there, and none of us knows the details nor the SOP of Cambridge police in that type of situation. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/64 "2009-07-23T16:56:19Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > That’s not the impression I get. But I am not a lawyer. As I asked way earlier, at what point does being abusive to a cop, or being loud and attracting a crowd, go from just being obnoxious behavior to turning into breaking the law? In reading the police report, I assume the officer thought the charges were supportable. Turns out he was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/65 "2009-07-23T16:57:00Z")
Two bits says Sharpton has already called a press conference to present his views and attach himself to this and stand in total solidarity with Mr. Gates. A further two bits that Gates would have preferred Sharpton to shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/66 "2009-07-23T16:58:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Two bits says Sharpton has already called a press conference to present his views and attach himself to this and stand in total solidarity with Mr. Gates. A further two bits that Gates would have preferred Sharpton to shut the fuck up. I thought you didn’t like to bet… 🙂 Doesn’t Sharpton usually attach himself to the common man, and not to celebrities in situations like this? Gates may not be Tiger Woods, but he’s a very public person. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/67 "2009-07-23T16:59:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Charges are dropped all the time. That doesn’t automatically make the arrest “stupid”. From the facts AS WE KNOW THEM, it was probably a mistake to arrest him. But none of us was there, and none of us knows the details nor the SOP of Cambridge police in that type of situation. “Charges are dropped all the time”? Which means, does it not, that innocent people are arrested all the time? Is there another interpretation? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/68 "2009-07-23T17:02:14Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Is there a reason you lump Prof. Gates and Al Sharpton together? Do you have a cite that links them together by behaviour? I mean Al Sharpton has a long list of infamous deeds, can you point to Prof. Gates having similar ones or is this because Prof. Gates felt he was treated poorly because of race and commented on it; he’s one of **‘them’**? > > Is he and Al Sharpton interchangeble in your opinion? What are you talking about? They’re exactly the same color, aren’t they? Therefore they must share exactly the same thoughts and opinions. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/69 "2009-07-23T17:02:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Charges are dropped all the time”? Which means, does it not, that innocent people are arrested all the time? Is there another interpretation? Only if you assume that police never make honest mistakes. I’m sure that many arrests are “stupid”, and whether this one was or not remains to be seen. And, at this point the process, it’s stupid for the president to be calling that shot. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/70 "2009-07-23T17:03:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Charges are dropped all the time”? Which means, does it not, that innocent people are arrested all the time? Is there another interpretation? Well, technically, all people are still innocent when they are arrested. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/71 "2009-07-23T17:07:01Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Not at all. What I think would have been the better response would have been to omit the details of the specific incident (including the conclusory “stupid” comment) on the grounds that the man’s a friend of his and he’s going to be a bit biased, and he doesn’t know the specifics anyway. > > Hell, he says all that and _then_ goes on to make conclusory statements! Therein lies the problem. > > My edited version: > > The important points are still made. I think the most important point was admitting that the cops acted stupidly. That’s precisely the thing that most politicians never have th sack to concede is even possible. That’s what separates Obama from the empty suits. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/72 "2009-07-23T17:08:41Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Only if you assume that police never make honest mistakes. I’m sure that many arrests are “stupid”, and whether this one was or not remains to be seen. And, at this point the process, it’s stupid for the president to be calling that shot. Which brings us back to my original assertion that it’s all about the word ‘stupid.’ Can we agree then that had the President used a different word set such as ‘ill advised’ or ‘not well thought out’ when describing the police’s actions we wouldn’t be having this discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/73 "2009-07-23T17:10:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Charges are dropped all the time. That doesn’t automatically make the arrest “stupid”. From the facts AS WE KNOW THEM, it was probably a mistake to arrest him. But none of us was there, and none of us knows the details nor the SOP of Cambridge police in that type of situation. No amount of information, details or evidence is ever enough to get some people to admit the cops did anything wrong. We have seen that even videotapes of cops abusing, choking, beating and even shooting subdued suspects in the back of the head always leads to nothing but more assertions that “we don’t have all the facts.” It’s God of the gaps. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/74 "2009-07-23T17:11:17Z")
_“However, I think it’s fair to say separate and apart from this incident that there is a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That’s just a fact.”_ But were those WISE Latinos? Inquiring minds want to know! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/75 "2009-07-23T17:11:33Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Is there a reason you lump Prof. Gates and Al Sharpton together? Do you have a cite that links them together by behaviour? I offer the police report as a cite for Gates’ behavior. Sharpton’s you already know about. They’re both black men who cry racism when it doesn’t exist. And you, too, are now assuming he was treated poorly due to his race. Nope. Don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/76 "2009-07-23T17:11:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But none of us was there, and none of us knows the details nor the SOP of Cambridge police in that type of situation. According to the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association per this [article](http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?&articleid=1186567&format=&page=1&listingType=Loc#articleFull) > [@](#): > > “His actions at the scene of this matter were consistent with his training, with the informed policies and practices of the department and with applicable legal standards.” Oh, and that racist bastard tried to save Reggie Lewis. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/77 "2009-07-23T17:14:17Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > Which brings us back to my original assertion that it’s all about the word ‘stupid.’ Can we agree then that had the President used a different word set such as ‘ill advised’ or ‘not well thought out’ when describing the police’s actions we wouldn’t be having this discussion? Not really. I don’t think he should be commenting on the behavior of the cops in this particular incident. The dust has not settled, and it’s not a presidential matter to begin with. If this ever goes to trial (Gates levels charges), it’ll be a mess seating a jury since Obama has already pronounced the verdict. Had he said “wrongly” instead, it still would’ve been a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/78 "2009-07-23T17:18:00Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > Which brings us back to my original assertion that it’s all about the word ‘stupid.’ Can we agree then that had the President used a different word set such as ‘ill advised’ or ‘not well thought out’ when describing the police’s actions we wouldn’t be having this discussion? I don’t think he could have phrased it in any possible way which would have precluded distorted Drudge headlines, Freeper outrage orgies and creative remixes of the video on Fox. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/79 "2009-07-23T17:21:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > _“However, I think it’s fair to say separate and apart from this incident that there is a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That’s just a fact.”_ > > But were those WISE Latinos? Inquiring minds want to know! What is the point of this question? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/80 "2009-07-23T17:23:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What is the point of this question? To point out that, while I think the president misspoke, this is really just another silly little flap that is getting waaaaaaaay more attention than it deserves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995.md?page=5)