# Obama says cops acted stupidly in Gates incident **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995 "2009-07-23T14:37:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![bri1600bv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@bri1600bv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bri1600bv)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/121 "2009-07-23T19:02:38Z")
The cop had nothing to apologize for, Gates should have been thankful that a cop was willing to risk his life to safeguard his house and possessions. Instead he goes off on him about racial profiling etc. As for showing him his ID, I think he wanted to call Harvard police to verify that the ID was REAL. If you yell at the top of your lungs at a cop who is doing his job, you’re probably going to get arrested. So, as far as “they arrested him even though he wasn’t guilty of a crime”, yelling at the cops is disturbing the peace, which is a crime, and that is why he was arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/122 "2009-07-23T19:05:41Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Heh, you still arguing this? Obama himself evidently disagrees with you about the appropriateness of making the remark. > > Was he wrong then, or is he wrong now? He’s wrong now, like I already said when I posted the the link. He shouldn’t have backed off. He should have told everybody to go fuck themselves if they don’t like hearing the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/123 "2009-07-23T19:11:43Z")
> [@bri1600bv](#): > > The cop had nothing to apologize for, Gates should have been thankful that a cop was willing to risk his life to safeguard his house and possessions. Instead he goes off on him about racial profiling etc. > > As for showing him his ID, I think he wanted to call Harvard police to verify that the ID was REAL. Really? A burglar would just happen to have a fake picture ID matching the real resident of the house? You think they would have done that wuth a 60 yearl old white guy? > [@](#): > > If you yell at the top of your lungs at a cop who is doing his job, you’re probably going to get arrested. His job was to fuck off after he saw the ID. > [@](#): > > So, as far as “they arrested him even though he wasn’t guilty of a crime”, yelling at the cops is disturbing the peace, which is a crime, and that is why he was arrested. Yelling at the cops in your own house is not a crime, and the “disturbing the peace” only happened because they asked him to step outside. It was a contrived, horsehit excuse to arrest a guy who wasn’t showing them proper deference. If the arrest had any validity at all, the charges would not have been dumped so quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/124 "2009-07-23T19:12:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He’s wrong now, like I already said when I posted the the link. He shouldn’t have backed off. He should have told everybody to go fuck themselves if they don’t like hearing the truth. Heh, I side with Obama on this one. He misspoke himself and then issued the necessary correction. Sticking up for a friend looks unprofessional and un-Presidential. The impression conveyed is that this Prof fellow really really does have friends in the highest places, just like he insinuated to the cop, and so can act like a dick howsoever he pleases. That said, I personally think the cops _were_ stupid to arrest him. But _I_ can say that - I’m not the personal friend of the Prof and I’m not the freaking President of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/125 "2009-07-23T19:20:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He’s wrong now, like I already said when I posted the the link. He shouldn’t have backed off. He should have told everybody to go fuck themselves if they don’t like hearing the truth. No. He should not have used the word ‘stupid’ in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/126 "2009-07-23T19:33:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Really? A burglar would just happen to have a fake picture ID matching the real resident of the house? You think they would have done that wuth a 60 yearl old white guy? > > His job was to fuck off after he saw the ID. What, his Harvard ID? I don’t know what those look like, and it’s possible the cop didn’t, either. That’s why he called the Harvard Campus Police, right? The Harvard ID doesn’t have a home address on it, does it? If it didn’t, it doesn’t provide proof of ownership of the building they were standing in. That info will have to come from another source. (Once Prof. Gates shows his driver’s license, the cop should have left. The arrest was unsupportable, it seems like.) ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/127 "2009-07-23T19:49:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Charges are dropped all the time. That doesn’t automatically make the arrest “stupid”. From the facts AS WE KNOW THEM, it was probably a mistake to arrest him. But none of us was there, and none of us knows the details nor the SOP of Cambridge police in that type of situation. It would seem you work under some very misguided delusion that an SOP is somehow in a position to supersede law and the constitution. The reason the officer wanted to go outside isn’t for acoustics; it’s because it’s only outside that he can arguably make an arrest for what was otherwise lawful conduct. This isn’t an uncommon way to massage along an arrest of someone who’s violated one of the cardinal laws: 1.) Pissing off the POlice (it has to be said with an affected accent) 2.) Hunting birds in the empire out of season, and 3.) Impersonating a human being. The president isn’t somehow devoid of being able to have an opinion merely because he’s elected. All too often, people criticize our officials for their vacant, disingenuous no comment comments. What happened there was stupid; it was likely the burden of the police officer. Even if not true, it’s his view. A view which is right now supported by what he knows, with the understanding that new evidence may come to light which would reverse his decision. Why else would he go to such an length to state he’s biased because it’s a friend, he doesn’t know all of the facts, and based on what he knows at the moment \_\_\_\_ is his best guess? And no, charges do not get dropped all of the time. Charges get dropped when the case isn’t winnable. The case isn’t winnable largely because of the ineptitude of the police officers doing the arresting and investigating. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/128 "2009-07-23T19:58:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You’d have to ask the cops that. They could have simply fucked off like they were supposed to do. No, you have to ask Gates, the cops left, just like everyone wanted them to. Gates followed, apparently to get a badge number so he could file a complaint. I’m presuming the complaint would be “Investigated a report of a break in, instead of going to eat a donut like pigs are supposed to.” > [@](#): > > Because they asked him to, but following the cops outside is not illegal anyway. The cop said he was leaving and Gates could continue his tirade if he wanted to, but it would have to be outside, because that’s where he would be. Gates didn’t have to follow them outside, the police didn’t drag him outside. > [@](#): > > The cops who _refuse_ to leave after they’ve assertained that no crime has been committed, then goad a guy into following them outside just so they can say they arrested him in public. Or, cops try to defuse the situation by leaving only to be followed by an angry resident. I’m not saying the arrest was justified, but anyone with half a brain should know that yelling at a cop and calling him a racist never makes any interaction with the police better. At best it ends exactly how it would have ended anyway, at worst, it’s significantly worse for the yeller. If you don’t mind my saying, STUPID is taking the route that has nothing but downside, and that’s the choice Gates made. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/129 "2009-07-23T20:02:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The cops who _refuse_ to leave after they’ve assertained that no crime has been committed, then goad a guy into following them outside just so they can say they arrested him in public. How did they know a crime hadn’t been committed? Gates refused to produce a valid ID. When he did they were trying to leave and the jackass wouldn’t let it go. He made a public display impugning the officers’ character. They had every right to arrest him for disturbing the peace. If Gates continues to impugn the officers and the department they should reinstate the charges. I question his fitness to teach at Harvard in an unbiased manner. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/130 "2009-07-23T20:09:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Gates refused to produce a valid ID. Up until he provided the ID, that is. > [@](#): > > If Gates continues to impugn the officers and the department they should reinstate the charges. That would be hilarious. If anything his comments since the arrest have been more moderate than what he was accused of saying before the arrest! ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/131 "2009-07-23T20:11:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If anything his comments since the arrest have been more moderate than what he was accused of saying before the arrest! See??? Arresting him DID calm him down! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/132 "2009-07-23T20:35:44Z")
> [@ashman165](#): > > It would seem you work under some very misguided delusion that an SOP is somehow in a position to supersede law and the constitution. I’m not talking about the legality or the constitutionality of this action. I’m talking about whether or not the officer acted in good faith or not, and if he followed SOP, chances are he did. > [@](#): > > The president isn’t somehow devoid of being able to have an opinion merely because he’s elected. Never said he wasn’t. > [@](#): > > All too often, people criticize our officials for their vacant, disingenuous no comment comments. What happened there was stupid; it was likely the burden of the police officer. Even if not true, it’s his view. A view which is right now supported by what he knows, with the understanding that new evidence may come to light which would reverse his decision. > > Why else would he go to such an length to state he’s biased because it’s a friend, he doesn’t know all of the facts, and based on what he knows at the moment \_\_\_\_ is his best guess? > > And no, charges do not get dropped all of the time. Charges get dropped when the case isn’t winnable. The case isn’t winnable largely because of the ineptitude of the police officers doing the arresting and investigating. This is just going around in circles, and I have nothing to add that I haven’t already said. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/133 "2009-07-23T20:48:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Let the courts work WHAT out? There is no pending case. There is nothing before any court. There is nothing being investigated. It’s over. There is a good possibility it will end up in court. It is not over until the appetite-challenged lady sings. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/134 "2009-07-23T20:51:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m not talking about the legality or the constitutionality of this action. I’m talking about whether or not the officer acted in good faith or not, and if he followed SOP, chances are he did. > Never said he wasn’t. > This is just going around in circles, and I have nothing to add that I haven’t already said. The middle part of this last sentence is the most reasonable thing you’ve said so far. If he’s following an SOP which is contrary to the law or the constitution, then he’s not acting in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/135 "2009-07-23T20:54:00Z")
> [@ashman165](#): > > If he’s following an SOP which is contrary to the law or the constitution, then he’s not acting in good faith. That’s absurd. If he doesn’t follow SOP, he’s likely to get fired. He’s not supposed to be a legal or constitutional scholar or expert-- the people who set up the SOP should be. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/136 "2009-07-23T20:59:57Z")
And now the [White House Press Secretary](http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99KBLHO0&show_article=1) is “qualifying” the President’s words. So we’re in the “what the President meant to say” mode. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/137 "2009-07-23T21:03:57Z")
This whole “controversey” is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/138 "2009-07-23T21:10:22Z")
Well said. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/139 "2009-07-23T21:29:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s absurd. If he doesn’t follow SOP, he’s likely to get fired. He’s not supposed to be a legal or constitutional scholar or expert-- the people who set up the SOP should be. And yet we send cops to cop school to know precisely what is required of them to comport with the law. If a departmental policy is contrary to law, and the officer knowingly follows it, it is the very definition of bad faith. Illegal action knowingly undertaken can’t be in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995/140 "2009-07-23T21:33:41Z")
> [@Kiber](#): > > So - **after** learning that Gates was in his own house (as evidenced by the Harvard ID he presented) and that **no crime had been committed** , the police officer then requested that additional police get involved??? Why? I lived in Cambridge 40 years ago, but if what was true then is still true today, this is not as suspicious as you make it sound. Cambridge is dominated by Harvard and MIT, which pay “taxes” to Cambridge more or less voluntarily. When I was there the Cambridge cops respected the sanctity of the campuses rather rigorously. When he discovered that Gates was a Harvard professor, getting the Harvard cops involved was very reasonable. Two data points. The cops came to our dorm, and basically said marijuana use by students was no problem so long as no one sold to high school kids, and no one grew pot plants in a window overlooking the police station. (Which some moron did.) Two - we had a little police riot one night - but the Cambridge police did not take part in it, and tried to calm the cops who did down. Now, we were long haired white types, so I can’t say how others fared. The missing piece of information here is how the cop acted when he arrived. Was he polite, or did he act with the preconception that Gates had no right to be there? In any case, calling the Harvard cops was neither stupid nor inflammatory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-cops-acted-stupidly-in-gates-incident/503995.md?page=8)