Can you regret your choice of words while still maintaining the sentiment behind them?
Are you saying that it’s OK for the police to arrest people, not because they violated the law, but simply “to teach them a lesson”? Do you feel comfortable giving the police that kind of power?
Cite? I mean, why do you think Obama thinks any of these things? You are accusing other people of mind reading, but here you go, reading a ton of things into Obama’s comment that the cops “acted stupidly” that are not in evidence. Arresting someone who didn’t deserve to be arrested = acting stupidly. You can entirely disregard the racial aspect of this, hell, you can even think Gates was WRONG to bring race into things, and STILL think the cop acted stupidly. That’s my stance on things. It’s not farfetched to think that Obama felt similarly. Considering that the charges were dropped, there is ample latitude for such a view, if you’re capable of a nuanced opinion, that is.
Obama made a mistake in using the word “stupidly,” because it’s needlessly insulting. He could have said “ill-advised” or “unwarranted.” I don’t think he’s changed his mind in any substantive way; I think he regrets his choice of words. And IMO he didn’t address race at all when he made his comments.
This cite has already been posted in this thread. Lucia Whalen said she never spoke to Crowley, never said two black men with backpacks were at Gates’ house. But here is a cite noting the discrepancy. Here is the 911 tape that confirms what Whalen said. Note that this is a Daily Kos cite, so underneath is a detailed account of the “lies” that Crowley told, which you can take with however many grains of salt you wish.
Since you choose to not respond to specific questions, I’ll keep this short and leave you to Obama-worship. Crowley left the house, to do what he was taught to do and call in with information. He left the premises. Being polite, he told the racist professor that if he still had anything to say that he could do it outside. Crowley left. Gates followed him, still running his racist mouth. A crowd was gathering. Crowley warned him to tone it down and showed him the cuffs. Gates chose the option to keep running his yap. Crowley slapped on the bracelets. Law enforcement in action. Fuck Gates and his fetid racist brain. Hope that clear things up for you.
As he admitted he didn’t have all the facts how did he know that he had all the relevant ones? To say that he did is pure hindsight. Your position is patently absurd.
Obama’s statement in and of itself showed him to be a complete idiot. “I don’t have all the facts, but here’s my opinion on the situation anyway” is stuff that idiots do on messageboards, not stuff that presidents should do in press conferences. I guess the guy working the teleprompter couldn’t type fast enough to feed him a better response than this.
His opinion on the facts that didn’t have to with race.
“but I think it’s fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge Police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home”
Yes it is perfectly clear. You have revealed yourself completely .
I am not an Obama worshipper. That is an ignorant thing to say unless you are a Fox News talking points fan. He is not part of the problem. Police that try to show their power over people is certainly one of them. Police that look down on the people who pay their salaries should be ashamed.
You are repeating the cops side as if it were undisputed fact. Not only to police lie frequently in their business but they cover each others lies as well. Crowley was wrong. After he got the ID ,he should have left. This mess is his. Taking it outside was an excuse to arrest him. If he were inside his trumped up charge of disturbing the peace would have been ludicrous. He lured him out so he could get his kick of arresting a guy who was a danger to nobody and was committing no crime. I would like to think he had better things to do with his time. But cops think showing the people who is boss is part of their job. He is the element of the police force that hurts all the cops. He makes cops look petty and spiteful.
Sure. So, do you think Obama wishes he held his tongue until he had all the facts or not. Do you think that, given his stature, that the right thing to do would have been to not opine on a situation—for which he had incomplete information—in which a friend was involved? Do you think he apologized? If so, did he mean it?
Not in order to teach them a lesson, no. But if in the process of keeping order someone learns a lesson, so much the better. Win-win. Happens every day. Turn on Cops. Though some people seem to need more than one lesson. We’ll see if one was enough for Gates.
Cite? I’m giving options for what must have been on his mind. Feel free to add to those options. Keep in mind, Obama acknowledged he didn’t have all the facts, yet, he sided with his black race-centric friend and against the police. I really don’t see how you can defend that. I don’t think even HE has sought to defend it.
I agree that the cop exercised his judgement in arresting Gates. This happens all the time with cops, particularly with disorderly conduct type charges. It’s, by definition, a judgment call. Yet, many here simply assume the cop acted inappropriately. Even the black cop’s take on things has Gates being a dick and Crowley doing nothing wrong. But somehow, you just know what really went down. Yeah. It’s clear that Gates was the more emotional of the two. Usually that would give more weight to the other person. But not in this case. Nope. Crowley MUST have acted inappropriately. Why? Well, I guess he is a cop. And white. When a black man was arrested.
That would have been an improvement. But as soon as he stated he didn’t have all the facts, he should not have opined—period. ESPECIALLY since he’s friends with one of the participants. It doesn’t get more basic than this. Really.
I’ll get back to you when I dredge the Great Salt Lake. I notice they omit the take of the black police officer. I’m shocked.
Look, I see who people can differ as to whether or not Crowley had to arrest, even should have arrested him. But there is nothing to suggest that he acted inappropriately. It was a judgement call. gates was belligerent and spewing inflammatory racist bullshit, earning him an arrest for disorderly conduct. It happens every day. At least he we have a black cop corroborating the cop’s story.
Right. The bolded part above is what I’m saying is stupid for him to say. I never said anything about race.
The bolded part was a stupid thing to say. Gates wasn’t arrested for burglary or trespassing, so it doesn’t matter that he was arrested when there was proof that he was in his own home or that the police were originally there to investigate a possible breaking and entering.
The cop was following procedure. His department says so. His union says so. The black officer says so. What evidence is there that he did anything wrong, other than make a judgement call that you don’t agree with?
You persist in twisting Obama’s words, even though they have been provided to you. He said he didn’t have all the facts on whether or not the incident was race-related. However, the man was arrested his home, after his identity was ascertained, and that was stupid. Can’t you see the difference there? He opined on the stupidity of the arrest but declined to opine on the race aspect. Since the question was specifically about the race aspect, he side stepped that and just commented on the arrest. The arrest was stupid, so I don’t think he said anything wrong there. I think he made a bad choice of words that was bound to get him into trouble, so I can understand why he regrets using the word “stupid.”
He didn’t have all the facts about THE RACE ASPECT. He did know that his friend was arrested on a bullshit charge, at his own home, after his identity was ascertained, and the charges were dropped. Those are the facts, pretty much, so he was able to give his opinion on that. He should have used less inflammatory wording.
Somehow, you know JUST what I’m thinking, right? You’re doing exactly what you accuse Gates of doing: making my judgments here all about race. You’re as wrong as you say Gates is. My opinion that the officer was wrong has nothing to do with race. He did act inappropriately, but not because he’s white and Gates is black. Because he didn’t leave immediately after he ascertained that Gates was the homeowner, which led to an arrest that didn’t need to be made. If he had left promptly and without further conversation, the incident would have been over.
Sadly, the more facts I’ve heard about this, the wronger I think the cop was.
He acted inappropriately by making an arrest he didn’t need to make. He could have just left instead of continuing to get into it with a citizen. YMMV, of course, but that’s my take on it, and it has nothing to do with who is black or who is white.
The fact that the charges were dropped would indicate it was a bad arrest, no? The fact that his department, the union, and his fellow officers are standing behind him is not an indicator that he’s right. It’s an indicator that cops stick up for each other.
Here’s a possible bad outcome from all this: Let’s say Crowley investigates a murder and apprehends the suspect. Turns out the suspect is a black male, and turns out that he actually did commit the crime. The defendant’s attorney then goes all Johnny Cochran on the jury, and the guy goes free. And kills again.
The blood of this hypothetical second victim is on your hands, Mr. Obama!
No, but seriously, I would bet the DA is making sure that all the necessary procedures have taken place to insure that the arrest gets the blessing of everyone whose opinion matters so taht this cop isn’t basically a walking get out of jail free card for every black male who finds his way into the back of his patrol car.
No, if he didn’t have all the information about the racial aspect he could not fairly ascertain whether the cop acted appropriately or stupidly. And the racial aspect comes from two directions. Initially the question was whether Crowley acted as a racist. But we now see that Gates definitely did. Without that information, and the degree to which Gates was a dick, he could NOT fairly gauge Crowley’s decision.
He was following procedure. I have said that the arrest was a judgement call. Crowley believed that a disorderly conduct arrest was called for. I can see how you might question that, but not how you know it to be inappropriate.
Sadly, that skirts the point completely. Not that I blame you.
It is perfectly consistent that at the time the best thing to do was arrest him and the next day the best thing to do was release him and drop the charges. Especially when you have a respected racist looking to fan the flames of racism.
Is it illegal to call a police officer a racist on your own property? No, it’s not. Crowley claims that Gates was yelling, but even the other officer at the scene does not corroborate that. He says that Gates was “acting strangely.” I’d also note that being a dick is not illegal either.
How was it following procedure to remain on the scene and continue the dispute outside after it was clear that Gates was the homeowner? Once Crowley realized that there was no crime, he should have left. He didn’t, and the direct consequence of that decision was an unnecessary and unsustained arrest. I’d also have to say that I think it’s inappropriate to write falsities in your police report. There’s at least one proven falsity, perhaps more.
Race race race. I am not talking about that topic, you are. I think the officer behaved inappropriately and that has nothing to do with race. I suspect that Obama thought the same, though without mind reading capabilities, I can’t be sure. Neither can you.
Man, why are we spending so much money on a criminal justice system when Rube is able to have perfect knowledge of exactly what happened? I don’t suppose the cops on the scene would have had a better idea of what was actually going on than our Rubester. Nah, that’s crazy talk.
I offered cites of where I got my information: Gates’ version of events, the 911 call, Lucia Whalen’s statements, all cited. I never claimed perfect knowledge, just more information than was offered in the police report, a proven flawed document. Gates was on the scene, as was Lucia Whalen, and their versions differ from Crowley’s. The other officer also offered a different take on things. AND the arrest was dropped, so the criminal justice system seems to agree that the arrest was unwarranted. You feel free to disregard their words, while taking the solely cop’s at 100% face value. That’s one way to look at it. That’s not the way someone who was trying to be fair would look at it, though.
Nice way to butcher my user name, though. If that’s how this is going to go now that this thread is in the Pit, it’s not worth it to me to continue the discussion. I began my comments in this thread in GD and plan to continue in that tone. If this is going to turn into another shitty little pissing match with you, Rover, I’m out.
So it is impossible to both “act strangely” and yell? The fact that the other cop said Gates was acting strangely shows that Crowley must have lied when he said Gates was yelling.
Here’s the point. All of the inconsistencies among sources you have looked at adds up to “it’s complicated.” In that situation, I don’t see any reason to believe that the cops acted “stupidly.”