Yes the cop should have left. Then what? NO bad press, no arresting a man for a trumped up charge of not giving a cop sufficient respect. They dropped the charged almost immediately. You do know that 'don’t you? The Mass. Court ruled in 2004 that you can not arrest a person for yelling at the cops. You know that too don’t you. The cops are supposed to arrest people who are a danger to others or break laws. What laws were broken. What civilian or cop was in danger? It was a stupid mistake.
So, you thinks the cops should show up to resond to a 911 call, and if someone is being disruptive such that the cops can’t fully investigate, the cops should just leave.
You’ve really done a good job so far on this board to convince us all that you are a moron, but this may be your best work yet. Congratulations.
Absolutely they should have left. What did the police gain from this incident? Some fools like you rally to their side. But you have nothing. Disruptive, to who. He was inside his own home. Are you really incapable of seeing there was no disruption. It distills down to a cop getting pissed off. His childish reaction mirrors yours. There was no danger to any person on earth in that home. There was no threat. It was about a citizen disrespecting a cop ,MAYBE. Maybe not. That may not have happened as the cop reported either. But in Mass. you can not arrest a man for yelling at a cop. Is that hard for you to follow? Rover your losing it .
Is there any reason to think they couldn’t fully investigate? Crowley ascertained that Gates was the homeowner and no crime was being committed-- because Gates gave him his ID. That was all done when Gates was arrested. That’s why people are questioning the validity of Crowley’s actions and Gates’ arrest, because it happened after the situation was resolved.
Why do you think that Gates handing his ID to the cop fully resolved the situation?
Since the only suspected crime was that of a non-owner entering a residence for nefarious purposes, the identification of the owner as the perpetrator of the suspected crime resolves the issue.
Yes. That should have been the end of it.
Fabricating a case to teach a harmless citizen a lesson in his own home is not police work at it’s best.
Hey Tom and gonzo, you do realize that the 911 caller reported two men attempting to break in, right?
I assume you have also heard od the concept of fake ID?
also, I guess you think it is impossible for the homeowner to come home between the call and the police showing up and be hising in the house?
The main point is that you are letting the actual facts that can be kniwn only after the incident color your perception of the cops’ real-time decisions.
Why shouldn’t Gates be hising in the house? It’s HIS house, dammit!
Fake ID? You’re kidding, right? Can you point to any such incident, ever, wherein a burglar went to the trouble of fabricating a fake ID for the target household? Where do you get this stuff?
What’s going to happen when he presents this fake ID? The cop will radio it in, to find out if this guy has any outstanding warrants, stuff like that. And the ID won’t hold up, now will it? Unless, of course, the burglar has already obtained Mr Gates actual ID, and somehow convincingly altered the picture to represent himself!
And, of course, the victim has yet to notice that his ID is missing. No, wait, the burglar obtained the ID, made his nefarious copy, and returned the original ID to Mr Gates wallet before he noticed! Yes, that explains it!
So, the burglar stole Mr Gates ID, duplicated it, and returned the original. Before Gates noticed it being missing. He snuck in once, got it, snuck in again, returned it. And then he broke in a third time, a matter of minutes before Gates returned from a trip. Rather poor timing for such a cunning criminal, don’t you think?
Is this the scenario you would like us to take seriously, rather than pointing and laughing?
And yes, we are, indeed, letting the facts “color our perception”. Pity you can’t.
OR maybe the burglar stole Prof. Gates ID, then had his own face altered to look like Prof. Gates, in a kind of real life John Woo Face/Off way, so that he could rob the house and have plausible deniablility.
HA! Didn’t think of that, did you 'luci? It’s a damn good thing that Officer Crowley is there to see thru this nefarious ruse and get to the bottom of it all!
Yeah, sorry, I meant that the bad guys could be in the house unbeknownst to Gates.
Hey luci-- how is the cop going to radio in the pic to see if it matches the suspect? Also, tom and gonzomax said that the cop seeing the ID resolves the matter, so they don’t even allow the cop to radio it in. And what about the other scenarios I’ve outlined?
Also, nice alteration of my last statement. You are playing the classic monday morning quarterback.
So, the fake ID even fooled Gates?
Look, RR, if you want to retract this perfectly silly line of “reasoning”, I think that wise.
Now, it may be possible that burglars were hiding in the house. Not plausible, but possible. But its still his house! If the cop says he wants to search the house to be sure, he must have the homeowners consent, or a warrant, or probable cause. Which is to say, actual evidence that such was the case.
Otherwise, he has to leave, regardless of any suggestions Mr Gates may have made relative to his momma. Put baldly, Counselor, you have no case. You got zero, zip, diddly squat, nada damn thing!
However, I think we should include the “fake ID” conjecture in the upcoming compilation of Rand Rover’s Greatest Hits.
I don’t think fake ID is often fabricated for the purposes of providing cover during a break-in, except perhaps by gentlemen-burglar, international jewel thieves and the like.
But I once defended a criminal case in which the accused was arrested for burglary and obstruction of justice after showing responding officers an ID which proved that he was at his own address. As it turned out, it was his FORMER address; he had moved some three months prior at the behest of his former girlfriend, who continued to live there, and was returning to “get some of his things.” When the officers first arrived, he claimed to live there and produced his old ID as evidence.
A win for the defense at trial, by the way, with acquittal on both counts.
Is it that you’re stupid or you think I am, or both? This fake ID scenario is just plain dumb. Tom and Gonzo said the ID resolves the matter, so the cop isn’t allowed to radio for confirmation? Huh? Wha?
And the burglar had best be in his middle to late 50’s, hadn’t he? Birthdate is on the ID, yes? And he duplicated not only Mr Gates driver’s license, but his Harvard ID? How about library cards, and credit cards, shit, why fuck around. go for it!
(Just in case you’re confused, thats not what “identity theft” means.)
As for your “other scenarios” that you’ve outlined…you mean the ones already thoroughly debunked? Do they, like this one, require us to believe that Mr Gates was being burgled by the Impossible Missions team?
But, he was, nonetheless, arrested. A prospect that our theoretical burglar would be at some pains to avoid, even if he could count on being defended by a wise latino.
While this could certainly happen, the 911 tape confirms that Crowley knew that the home was owned by Henry Louis Gates because he was told via radio. Thus, once he saw the ID and confirmed that the man in the house was Gates, the situation was resolved vis a vis the robbery, anyway.
Well, strictly speaking, no. If the Impossible Burglary Team had convincingly falsified Gate’s ID and fooled the cop, then its still possible. A daunting prospect and a ridiculous conjecture, but possible. Not plausible, mind. Possible.
Gates brought luggage. He just got back from China. That would be an enterprising crook who brought luggage. Bricker’s scenario is not relevant to this case. Gates showed school ID and a license. His neighbors would have attested ,if Crowley thought the old prof was really a criminal. The officer knew better. He was not arresting him for breaking and entering, nor suspicion of burglary, but a trumped up charge . It would not have stuck and they knew it.