# Obama says he would, as POTUS, have his AG look into prosecuting Bush Admin crimes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442 "2008-04-15T14:34:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/81 "2008-04-16T16:18:05Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I don’t recall defending [William Jefferson.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=423695) [/quote] That’s because, as you mentioned - > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Besides, as noted above, the outcome probably will not change the partisan makeup of the House > [@](#): > > Their **what?** Their [Contract with America.](http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2200) You’re not even pretending to pay attention here, are you? You know - where [earmarks are bad](http://obama.senate.gov/press/070621-obama_announces_3/) and we are going to [pay as you go](http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/clinton-obama-vs.-pay-go-2008-01-15.html) and so forth. > [@](#): > > I committed no blunder of any kind in my formulation of the OP, and the possibility of investigations of Bush officials under an Obama Admin is the only topic I proposed for discussion. so when you said > [@](#): > > W is still in office and there’s still time to impeach between now and January '09, and Obama, as a senator, would be part of (the trial end of) that process if it happened. You meant "let’s not talk about because it will never happen’. Gotcha. > [@John Mace](#): > > I’m sure there are many in Congress and many on this board who would love to see a witch hunt… Those are the ones I’'m talking about. The fact that Obama refuses to rule it out is illustrative. Will the Democrats be able to push Obama around if and when he makes it to the Oval Office? I imagine they would - he has essentially no executive experience, and relatively less Washington experience. On the other hand, Pelosi and Reid and the rest of the idiots are (as mentioned) unable to achieve much with a relatively weak, lame duck President. It may be the case that even a greenhorn like Obama will be able to stand up to them. I’m thinking Clinton in his first year or so of office. He wasn’t able to bring off any significant policy changes favored by his party (he wasn’t able to pass the deficit stimulus he wanted, NAFTA was primarily due to Republican support, and Hilary care failed). We’ll see (maybe). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/82 "2008-04-16T16:29:38Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Their [Contract with America.](http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2200) You’re not even pretending to pay attention here, are you? [/quote] I’m fairly certain that’s a parody site. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/83 "2008-04-16T16:29:57Z")
[QUOTE=ManiacMan] Well why doesn’t the Democratic controlled congress start the investigation now? Are they pussies? Or maybe its more like there is nothing at all out of the ordinary. Was Abraham Lincoln investigated for what he did during the Civil War? Were any number of presidents throughout various wars tried or impeached? [/QUOTE] The administration owns the Justice Dept. and they say by presidential fiat that no one who the congress supoenas has to show up. Don’t you follow the news? The American Way of Life™ isn’t under threat by the **terrorists** , it’s under threat by the Administration. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/84 "2008-04-16T16:30:58Z")
Let me put the shoe on the other foot for a minute. Suppose it was back in 1999 and Governor George Bush is appearing on the O’Reilly Report. And suppose O’Reilly asked Bush, _“A lot of people think the Clintons and their people have committed a lot of crimes in office. Are you going to act on that?”_ And suppose Bush’s answer was, _“One of the first things I’m going to do if elected is have my Attorney General go back over the last eight years and see if there’s any crimes we can prosecute them for.”_ Now do you see how it can sound when a candidate says he’s going to go looking for crimes? You can believe that Obama’s intentions are nobler than Bush’s and he wouldn’t abuse his power but other people are going to have suspicions that if his Attorney General is directed to look for crimes, he’s going to make sure he finds something. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/85 "2008-04-16T16:36:43Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Let me put the shoe on the other foot for a minute. Suppose it was back in 1999 and Governor George Bush is appearing on the O’Reilly Report. And suppose O’Reilly asked Bush, _“A lot of people think the Clintons and their people have committed a lot of crimes in office. Are you going to act on that?”_ And suppose Bush’s answer was, _“One of the first things I’m going to do if elected is have my Attorney General go back over the last eight years and see if there’s any crimes we can prosecute them for.”_ [/QUOTE] Everyone would have recognized that as pointless. If Ken Starr hadn’t already found it, it wasn’t there to be found. The Bush Admin is a different time. For one thing, the [U.S. Office of Independent Counsel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_the_Independent_Counsel) expired in 1999, and its replacement is an office within the Justice Department – which has shown a certain political independence WRT the Plame Affair, but that’s not too impressive compared with all the ground it has left uncovered. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/86 "2008-04-16T16:57:16Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] And suppose Bush’s answer was, _“One of the first things I’m going to do if elected is have my Attorney General go back over the last eight years and see if there’s any crimes we can prosecute them for.”_ [/QUOTE] Except that doesn’t mirror what Obama said at all. With one little modal, you’ve made it sound like Obama’s going to be writing up tickets for cracked windshield and lack of seatbelts. Obama is looking at going through and seeing if there’s any crimes we _should_ prosecute for. Not can. Should. If it turns out there are egregious human rights violations that the Bush administration has been successful in covering up during their term in power, _shouldn’t_ that be brought to light? I’m not saying there’s actually anything technically illegal that the Bush admin has done, regardless of what I believe. If the review turns up a lot of bad and ethically questionable stuff but nothing _illegal_, then prosecution is uncalled for and I will think less of Obama if he pursues such. But if there is evidence of illegal acts committed, _should_ we let criminals loose simply because it might look partisan? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/87 "2008-04-16T16:57:56Z")
I think the Valerie Plame affair needs a more complete investigation. If there is evidence of the involvement of the VP then he should face trial for it. I think the awarding of contracts in Iraq needs to be investigated. If crimes are found there, then the people responsible should face trial. I think the ‘power’ that Karl Rove has exercised, even though he did not have any official power needs to be investigated. Perhaps what he has done is not against the law because the laws don’t cover that. There have been many instances where he gave direction to the CIA/FBI or other agencies. Direction he did not have the authority to give. If the people at those various agencies broke the law by taking that direction, then they should face trial. If Rove didn’t break the law, because there is no law to cover it, then there needs to be a law. There are probably other things that should be investigated. Things that only the next POTUS will be able to ‘see’ and report to the Justice Department. ---
**Author:** ![Snag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Snag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snag)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/88 "2008-04-16T17:04:38Z")
[QUOTE=ManiacMan] Well why doesn’t the Democratic controlled congress start the investigation now? Are they pussies? [/QUOTE] I would suggest that part of it, along with other reasons given, is that the ever escalating amount of money required for a seat in D.C. has created a hotbed of corruption that some Democrats are unwilling to go rooting around in. While there may be criminal activities engaged in by the Bush administration, the environment in Washington had created the perfect petri dish in which it could flourish. Which would more clearly illustrate to their constituents how such things could happen in the first place with both sides enabling that environment if all the criminal wrongdoing were to be brought to light. Those who have been comfortable for many years with the way things are done now, on either side, don’t want to upset the apple cart as it may bring about changes that don’t include them. Or at the very least will require them to change the skill set it takes to currently retain a seat in Washington. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/89 "2008-04-16T17:06:29Z")
[QUOTE=ManiacMan] Well why doesn’t the Democratic controlled congress start the investigation now? [/quote] The DOJ and the Office of the Attorney General are part of the Executive Branch. Congress can’t tell them what to do, only the President can. Obama was specifically asked about what he would do _if he was given the Executive power which Congress does not currently possess_. having said that, Congress has, tried very much to exercise the investigative powers it does possess, but the white House is stonewalling the subpoenas (and losing evidence). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/90 "2008-04-16T17:10:51Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] If it turns out there are egregious human rights violations that the Bush administration has been successful in covering up during their term in power, _shouldn’t_ that be brought to light? [/QUOTE] Indeed it should be, **whether such acts were illegal or not.** I should hope none of the conservatives in this thread would even argue the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/91 "2008-04-16T17:48:37Z")
Just spitballin’ here, but howzabout an “investigative amnesty”? Lets just say that the Bush Admin will be investigated, but no criminal charges will be filed so long as people tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but. Because that’s all I want. I want all the rocks overturned, I want the vermin identified, I want to know who did what, when. Of course, if they take the deal, they take the deal. They lie, its perjury. Top of the list? The possible use of the Justice Department as a political tool for the Republican Party. I want every detail, I want who did what when. The “why” part I can work out for myself. Screw retribution, the truth will be quite sufficient. Note: this most emphaticly does not apply to any of the Abramoff related scandals, which are just plain ol’ political whoring. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/92 "2008-04-16T17:51:35Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Just spitballin’ here, but howzabout an “investigative amnesty”? Lets just say that the Bush Admin will be investigated, but no criminal charges will be filed so long as people tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but. Because that’s all I want. I want all the rocks overturned, I want the vermin identified, I want to know who did what, when. [/QUOTE] A Truth & Reconciliation Commission? I guess I could accept that, as a compromise – but why would it be legally or politically necessary to compromise at all? The value of actual prosecutions is that it would keep a lot of Bush Admin members from waiting out the next 4-8 years and coming back to serve in a later Pub administration, as Bush inherited so many venerable scumbags from his Dad and even (in Cheney’s case) from Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/93 "2008-04-16T18:00:25Z")
Works for me. Of course, if they still find nothing then I’d like to see this subject henceforth stricken from the threads in GD at least. 😉 Personally, while I think that Bush et al have stretched the laws or even bent them into pretzels, I have my doubts that they have broken nearly as many as folks on this board or in the Democrat party THINK they have. It’s like the ‘Iraqi war is ILLEGAL’ threads from a few years ago. The law is…flexable. While things the administration has done are distasteful and foolish (read: stupid), I have my doubts that most are illegal in a REAL, meaningful sense of the word. Not being a lawyer perhaps I am not best qualified on this topic though…but then, most of those ranting for GW’s blood aren’t lawyers either and I have a sneaking suspicion they don’t know any more about the actual laws in play and the various legal ramification than I do. But I bet BUSH has teams of lawyers making sure that, while they might be skating close to the edge of the thin ice, they are never quite going so far as to fall into the water. I think this who thing from Obama is yet more politican smoke and mirrors…or, perhaps it’s more like bread and circus stuff, just some bones he is tossing to the faithful. I will be VERY surprised if Obama, once elected, either goes whole hog after Bush et al or managed to nail them with anything real. I guess we’ll see…certainly I HOPE he manages to put Bush and his merry men away for something, if in fact they have done something that crosses the line. We’ll see… -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/94 "2008-04-16T18:04:40Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] But I bet BUSH has teams of lawyers making sure that, while they might be skating close to the edge of the thin ice, they are never quite going so far as to fall into the water. [/QUOTE] [He does, he does](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080428/gillers) . . . but lawyers aren’t perfect, and in the end they might fall through anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/95 "2008-04-16T18:07:27Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Indeed it should be, **whether such acts were illegal or not.** I should hope none of the conservatives in this thread would even argue the contrary. [/QUOTE] > [@The US Constitution](#): > > No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed. So, if no evidence of a crime is forthcoming, you would like to suspend the Constitution. I believe Obama taught Constitutional law at one time. One would hope he has a better grasp of the subject than you suggest. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/96 "2008-04-16T18:07:51Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Just spitballin’ here, but howzabout an “investigative amnesty”? Lets just say that the Bush Admin will be investigated, but no criminal charges will be filed so long as people tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but. Because that’s all I want. I want all the rocks overturned, I want the vermin identified, I want to know who did what, when. Of course, if they take the deal, they take the deal. They lie, its perjury. Top of the list? The possible use of the Justice Department as a political tool for the Republican Party. I want every detail, I want who did what when. The “why” part I can work out for myself. Screw retribution, the truth will be quite sufficient. Note: this most emphaticly does not apply to any of the Abramoff related scandals, which are just plain ol’ political whoring. [/QUOTE] And if an investigation of Cheney’s “man-sized safe” confirms our deepest fears? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/97 "2008-04-16T18:11:17Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Indeed it should be, **whether such acts were illegal or not.** I should hope none of the conservatives in this thread would even argue the contrary. [/QUOTE] Given that the term ‘egregious’ is subjective and can depend largely on the politics of the person making the assessment, and given that there is no real legal penalty that can be visited upon someone for an egregious act, I would not necessarily favor it. Like it or not, legality is what officially decides right versus wrong in this country, and investigating people and heralding allegedly egregious but not illegal acts only leads to accusations of witch-hunting. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/98 "2008-04-16T18:13:51Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] So, if no evidence of a crime is forthcoming, you would like to suspend the Constitution. I believe Obama taught Constitutional law at one time. One would hope he has a better grasp of the subject than you suggest. [/QUOTE] Look again at the sentence of mine he quoted: > [@me](#): > > If it turns out there are egregious human rights violations that the Bush administration has been successful in covering up during their term in power, shouldn’t that be brought to light? Nothing in that particular sentence about legality or prosecution, although the paragraph as a whole dealt with it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/99 "2008-04-16T18:15:47Z")
[QUOTE=ManiacMan] Well why doesn’t the Democratic controlled congress start the investigation now? Are they pussies? [/quote] There have been investigations. Remember when Gonzoles was forced out of office? But Obama is talking about what his DoJ would do, which I think is an appropriate thing for him to talk about on the campaign trail. But like I said, that’s basically throwing meet to the lions in the primary. > [@](#): > > Or maybe its more like there is nothing at all out of the ordinary. Or maybe there is: NSA wiretapping Extraordinary rendition The Iraq War (the whole shebang, from start to non-finish) Torture (who knew what when) Cheney’s involvement in the Valery Plame affair …to name a few off the top of my head > [@](#): > > Was Abraham Lincoln investigated for what he did during the Civil War? Were any number of presidents throughout various wars tried or impeached? I really don’t care what we did in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442/100 "2008-04-16T18:25:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Was Abraham Lincoln investigated for what he did during the Civil War? He was dead. What would have been the point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-says-he-would-as-potus-have-his-ag-look-into-prosecuting-bush-admin-crimes/445442.md?page=6)