# Obama "scares" former P&G VP Lou Pritchett in mass email -- What say you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2009, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142 "2009-08-29T07:25:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/101 "2009-09-01T17:41:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > . . . just as Pritchett thinks that the fact that Obama went to a Muslim school. . . That, of course, should be “. . . just as Pritchett chooses to believe the proven lie that Obama went to a “Muslim” school. . .” ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/102 "2009-09-01T17:43:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, you’re not. You are asserting that the facts carry no weight, not that they aren’t true. This is the kind of assertion that cries out for the usual “Cite?” It’s not true that Obama went to a Muslim school. And given how much you relied on that “fact” in composing the rest of your post, I think there’s not much left there. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/103 "2009-09-01T17:50:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > …just like Obama’s attendance at a Muslim school is a fact subject to different opinions on weight. It is not a “fact” subject to anything. Obama no more attended a Muslim school than American public high school students attend Christian ones. You’ve brought this up several times even though it was debunked the very first time- it’s beginning to look less like constructive debate and more like trolling. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/104 "2009-09-01T18:01:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > it’s beginning to look . . . more like trolling. Leave accusations of trolling out of Great Debates. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/105 "2009-09-01T18:06:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > NoPritchett gives great weight to facts that the SDMB dismisses out of hand. Okay, you’ve got me curious: What is your definition of “fact”? It obviously isn’t the same as most people’s, as your stubborn adherence to the “Muslim school” lie attests. > [@](#): > > the fact that Obama drinks American beer is evidence that he is culturally American. And while you’re at it, what is your definition of “culturally American”? Place your answer in the context of “the great melting pot”, if you please. ---
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/106 "2009-09-01T19:11:47Z")
**Shodan** , you must have missed my question about any recent example of how these factors, for example, the “muslim” school you focus on so much, has actually influenced how President Obama lives his life today. Consider it restated. > [@](#): > > Much the same way that you could tell that the fact that Obama drinks American beer is evidence that he is culturally American. But you see, I do have a definition of “culturally american.” It is (in simple terms) that “the individual’s lifestyle is principally influenced by American culture, such that his activities and lifestyle choices are those commonly seen among Americans.” In other words, the things a “culturally American” person does are rooted in American culture. That, I think is a common-sense definition. It is also a very good description of the President of the United States today. So, let me ask again. What is the definition you are using for “culturally, not an American”? Alternatively, you can provide recent examples of how Obama is “culturally, not an American” according to your definition. > [@](#): > > This is pretty much the kind of thing that Pritchett is doing. No, it isn’t. > [@](#): > > Obama is a Constitutional scholar, so he won’t suggest anything un-Constitutional. This is a mis-statement of my position. I do not say Obama wouldn’t suggest “anything unconstitutional”–I say he won’t advocate anything 'grossly unconstitutional"–something no-one could legitimately argue to be constitutional. For example, extending a presidential term beyond the exceptionally clear constitutional limitations thereon. There is no reasonable argument that a president can do so without a constitutional amendment. And Heller v. DC reinterpreted the Second Amendment. Obama was correct on the prevailing interpretation of the Second Amendment in federal court before that case was decided. So it’s simply incorrect to say he was advocating something clearly unconstitutional by supporting the DC statute. > [@](#): > > How much weight to assign to this fact is a matter of opinion, just like Obama’s attendance at a Muslim school is a fact subject to different opinions on weight. If you want to say, “Oh well, that doesn’t count”, fine, but then it is equally legitimate for Pritchett to say the fact that Obama moved back to America doesn’t count either. 1. As has been repeatedly pointed out, it is incorrect to describe the school he went to as “muslim.” 2. How postmodern of you–contending all opinions are equally valid, regardless of their factual support. I’m not pointing to Pritchett’s evidence. I’m pointing to all the other evidence that supports the conclusion that Obama is culturally American in almost every way. Either Pritchett is ignoring that evidence, in which case his opinion is not based in reality, or his definition of “culturally, not an American” is different than the common-sense definition. Care to suggest which it is? 1. I’m not saying Obama’s four years out of the country don’t count. I am saying that they are overwhelmingly outweighed by his forty-four years in the country. I am also saying that there is no evidence (if there was, I assume you would have cited it) that suggests who Obama is today has been significantly influenced by his time out of the country. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/107 "2009-09-01T19:20:33Z")
> [@whorfin](#): > > I’m not saying Obama’s four years out of the country don’t count. I am saying that they are overwhelmingly outweighed by his forty-four years in the country. I am also saying that there is no evidence (if there was, I assume you would have cited it) that suggests who Obama is today has been significantly influenced by his time out of the country. Oddly, he himself made just the opposite point repeatedly during the campaign. > [@](#): > > He has cited his personal background-his Kenyan-born father and a youth spent in Indonesia-as crucial to the development of his world view. Which, btw, is a good thing. Staying only in one country leads to the kind of pig-ignorance that typified his predecessor. ---
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/108 "2009-09-01T19:25:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, not really. It has been asserted that the opinions of the e-mail are completely unfounded. This is not the case - Pritchett gives great weight to facts that the SDMB dismisses out of hand. > > . . . > How much weight to assign to this fact is a matter of opinion, just like Obama’s attendance at a Muslim school is a fact subject to different opinions on weight. If you want to say, “Oh well, that doesn’t count”, fine, but then it is equally legitimate for Pritchett to say the fact that Obama moved back to America doesn’t count either. > > Regards, > Shodan As an analogy to what Pritchett is arguing, and an example of why it is absurd to argue “different opinions on weight” are equally valid: It is my opinion that George W. Bush is ten years old. I have facts that support that opinion: here is a picture of him at the age of 10. [Homepage | George H.W. Bush Presidential Library and Museum](http://bushlibrary.tamu.edu/image.php?id=2445) You may dismiss my “facts” out of hand, but in my opinion, they deserve great weight. According to your argument, that difference of opinion does not justify calling my opinion unfounded. Further, I think we shouldn’t give any weight to all those pictures other people are using to argue that George W. Bush is now older than 10. I acknowledge they exist, but am of the opinion that they don’t deserve any weight. Again, according to your argument, the proper amount of weight to give to those pictures is a matter of opinion–if you want to say “Oh well, that doesn’t count” to my evidence, it is equally valid for me to say that about your evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/109 "2009-09-01T19:26:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Oddly, he himself made just the opposite point repeatedly during the campaign. > Which, btw, is a good thing. Staying only in one country leads to the kind of pig-ignorance that typified his predecessor. Saying it’s affected his worldview is not the same as saying it’s affected his cultural identification. During my “formative years,” I spent three years in Europe and two years in Africa. It definitely affected my worldview (especially Africa), but it didn’t affect my cultural identification in the slightest. I’m as American as obesity and watery beer. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/110 "2009-09-01T19:27:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, not really. It has been asserted that the opinions of the e-mail are completely unfounded. This is not the case - Pritchett gives great weight to facts that the SDMB dismisses out of hand. > Much the same way that you could tell that the fact that Obama drinks American beer is evidence that he is culturally American. That’s a fact that you consider definitive, just as Pritchett thinks that the fact that Obama went to a Muslim school and lived in a Muslim country to be definitive. > No, you’re not. You are asserting that the facts carry no weight, not that they aren’t true. This is the kind of assertion that cries out for the usual “Cite?” > > This is pretty much the kind of thing that Pritchett is doing. Obama is a Constitutional scholar, so he won’t suggest anything un-Constitutional. However, he was in favor of the Washington DC gun ban that was later found to be un-Constitutional. Ergo, it is not unprecedented that Obama would suggest something later found to be un-Constitutional. > > How much weight to assign to this fact is a matter of opinion, just like Obama’s attendance at a Muslim school is a fact subject to different opinions on weight. If you want to say, “Oh well, that doesn’t count”, fine, but then it is equally legitimate for Pritchett to say the fact that Obama moved back to America doesn’t count either. > > Regards, > Shodan So, what you’re telling us is IOKIACDI. ---
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/111 "2009-09-01T19:32:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Oddly, he himself made just the opposite point repeatedly during the campaign. > Which, btw, is a good thing. Staying only in one country leads to the kind of pig-ignorance that typified his predecessor. I agree that this is a good thing–that he has an ability to understand more than a parochial American worldview. But I wouldn’t argue this is what Pritchett means when he says that Obama is “culturally, not an American.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/112 "2009-09-01T19:34:09Z")
I wonder if Pritchett would have a beer with Obama. I seem to recall one of Bush’s strengths as President was that his supporters would drink beer with him. Bush was probably culturally American. ---
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/113 "2009-09-01T19:40:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > . I’m as American as obesity and watery beer. There’s the evidence. Obama is thin and in outrageously good shape. Clearly not an American. ---
**Author:** ![thrushblossom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c77e96/32.png) [@thrushblossom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thrushblossom)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/114 "2009-09-01T20:25:47Z")
Lou Pritchett scares me, as does my friend who sends daily circulating emails concocted and decocted from the smarmy cauldrons of unfed indiscriminating gullible mean spirited sh-t stirrers. Snopes is our friend, and my new all time fave, [http://www.factcheck.org/](http://www.factcheck.org/). ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/115 "2009-09-01T22:43:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > And what happened to all these people, millions and millions of them, living in the safest, most prosperous, most advanced country in the world, to make them so afraid of nearly every damn thing on the planet that isn’t themselves? That’s what happened. Without anything to really fear, they invented things to fear. It’s like keeping a baby in a germ-free box until his immune system learns to overreact to everything. Also, [Shodan,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11498387&postcount=6) I don’t think you understand what “opinion” means. Opinion is not merely “factual claim I can’t prove” or “unsubstantiated supposition.” Opinions are about preference: e.g., I like pistachio ice cream, you may not. A man has a right to his opinions, & even to his suppositions, but not to willful ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/116 "2009-09-01T23:22:38Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > So, what you’re telling us is IOKIACDI. I really wish people would stop writing this crap, it isn’t cute, it isn’t clever and I don’t appreciate the sudden imposed duty of figuring out what the hell YOU are talking about. Yeah yeah, I’m not hip and don’t understand teenage chick text slang. The mother-tongue weeps aloud. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/117 "2009-09-01T23:43:00Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I really wish people would stop writing this crap, it isn’t cute, it isn’t clever and I don’t appreciate the sudden imposed duty of figuring out what the hell YOU are talking about. > > Yeah yeah, I’m not hip and don’t understand teenage chick text slang. > > The mother-tongue weeps aloud. So say we all. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/118 "2009-09-02T00:35:28Z")
What IS he talking about? I mean, why would anyone bother with that acronym? It’s longer than a lot of text message SENTENCES. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/119 "2009-09-02T00:55:09Z")
Its OK If A Conservative Does It. (duh) ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142/120 "2009-09-02T00:58:41Z")
Oooooooohhhhhhhhhhh. Danke. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-scares-former-p-g-vp-lou-pritchett-in-mass-email-what-say-you/508142.md?page=7)